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Last night a friend phoned me. She was in tears. Apparently, things are not going well between her and the man she is seeing. I knew this was coming, which might sound harsh, but isn’t meant to be. The man, you see, is married - and not to my friend. In a similar vein to MM’s post Perceptions, it made me wonder why a young, single woman would let herself get into this position. More specifically, why does a woman who is having an affair with a married man automatically assume that he is telling her the truth when he is already lying to his wife? I really don’t understand it. Male friends of mine have been in the reverse situation; a single man with a married woman. For whatever reason, they have no such illusions. In fact, the absence of commitment and any sort of long term future is often what attracts them. They are also blatantly open about the fact that they would never consider going on to have a serious relationship with a woman who has already been unfaithful to her husband. That they are implicated in the infidelity does not seem to enter the equation, let alone suggest that they themselves might be a risky proposition as a future partner. As far as they’re concerned it's a win-win situation. Not so for women it seems to me. I could be wrong, I’m just thinking out loud here, but seriously, when a married man tells a woman that he loves her and wants to be with her but all the while is cheating on his wife, and the woman knows this, then how can she believe him? While he's promising the world to her, he's destroying that of his wife. Isn't it obvious? Why does she think that anything will be different in her case? Does she think that she is the one that is going to change him? Is that it? Tell me someone, please, because it beats me. So I spoke to my friend, again. I told her that she needed to take control of the situation, again. I called the married fella all the names under the sun and told her to leave him, again. I said that this weepy, indecisive, depressed woman she had become was not really her, and couldn’t she see what he was turning her into? (again). Then I lost my temper for a bit and said that she had to pull herself together long enough to make a decision about her future and didn’t she know that someone had probably swiped my beer while I’d been outside talking to her on the phone for so long (hey, what are friends for? – and anyway, she laughed and stopped crying). But seriously (again). It's an age old story, I know. Men are bastards, I know. What I don't know, though, is why some otherwise very intelligent women are so naive. |
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6/5/2008 1:19 pm |
Gower.. I had a friend in the same situation... very smart very educated but also very insecure and naive. I think it's a lot of things that cause a woman to fall in love with a married man... Some of it has to do with wanting love and to be loved and not really caring by whom. Sometimes it's pride and selfishnes " I can have anyone I want" attitude, and sometimes it's just by pure accident the " I never intended to fall in love with this guy but damnit I did!" It's human nature to want what we can't always have, yes I was the friend that she called in the middle of night crying her eyes out because he was at home with his wife and he promised to be with her.. or everytime she seen him in public with his wife and children she had to act as though she didn't know him but what always baffled me was how she clung to him as though he was the last man on this planet. Love is strange and it really doesn't have a respect of person when we fall we fall for hard and sometimes, most times for the wrong person. When you can't beat em' with anything else beat em' with kindness 
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6/5/2008 1:53 pm |
Yes, it is very, very wrong! Dammit, to keep a man from his beer ... it's definitely a crime! Hell, I have more friends than I can count who go through this. It exasperates the hell out of me. And although I try not to be judgmental and still love them as friends, to be honest, I lose a lot of respect for them. The fact that they feel entitled to cry and whine about their lot when they imposed that upon themselves ... well, I always ask them if they do not wonder if the bloke's wife is not going through the same. Right before I tell them to get a bloody grip and stop whining. Still, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. And before people start on at me for being unsympathetic because I have never been there before, I have been in situations where I have been attracted to someone who was either married or attached. Regardless of whatever feelings I had for them, one thing always stopped me. I remember my mother's tears every night my father was with another woman. I would never want to be the cause of that to another woman and her child. In the immortal words from 6th Sense ... I see stupid people.
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6/5/2008 1:57 pm |
Sometimes we can't help who we love...I guess that's obvious. And love isn't objective. I really think we should tread carefully around any generalizations here as each situation and person is so different. There are as many reasons for why people choose to love certain people as there are people. But, all that aside, there are personalities and human commonalities which draw us to a certain type of love. Like women (and men) who fall in love with people who need to be "fixed" or "mommied," the same may be true for those who fall in love with people they can't have. Then there's the trust issue. Phew. That's a big one and I don't understand it. I think this is where 'the each situation is unique' conundrum must play out. Maybe maybe maybe there are a million reasons he has lied (and lets face it, she's a liar now, too). Is it that age-old flagellation need? On both parts? Yikes. Stop asking so many questions! And close your eyes, dammit. Peace .. elaine67
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 6/5/2008 2:08 pm |
you surprise me. Didn't think you were serious about male and female ways of thinking. You want an answer fitting to those stereotypes?
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6/5/2008 2:09 pm |
You need to learn how to just be a friend and not pass judgement. It takes a long time to learn this. For me, I had to lose a friend, then re-accept a different one back into my life in effort to learn the skill. Learn the skill, you'll be a better friend. It's not your job to save your friend from percieved heartache. You are not her fortune teller. or his. All that said, people should get divorced or at least separated before starting new relationships, it's only fair. I for sure would never get involved with a married man myself, but insecure women like some satisfaction of thinking they are better than the wife, whom they are really envious of. I think it stems (for women) from having a passive mother...and overall poor boundaries. i've never messed with a married man.
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 6/5/2008 2:16 pm |
Sometimes we can't help who we love...I guess that's obvious. And love isn't objective. I really think we should tread carefully around any generalizations here as each situation and person is so different. There are as many reasons for why people choose to love certain people as there are people. But, all that aside, there are personalities and human commonalities which draw us to a certain type of love. Like women (and men) who fall in love with people who need to be "fixed" or "mommied," the same may be true for those who fall in love with people they can't have. Then there's the trust issue. Phew. That's a big one and I don't understand it. I think this is where 'the each situation is unique' conundrum must play out. Maybe maybe maybe there are a million reasons he has lied (and lets face it, she's a liar now, too). Is it that age-old flagellation need? On both parts? Yikes. Stop asking so many questions! And close your eyes, dammit. Just be the friend she needs and pick up the pieces when you have to. I'm sure that will happen at some point and a friend is what she will need. Oh and take a beer or three with you, you might be there a while 
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6/5/2008 2:24 pm |
A married man is the most unattractive man to me. That ring on the hand is like....leprosy. You look away REAL fast! The worst part is when he is eyeing you up like some horny pig, right in front of his wife. Happens to me all the time. Sick disrespectful A-holes. And my husband would do it to me, and be looking at really ugly women, that is the biggest insult. The last time I watched him at the grocery store, he was eyeing up some really ugly fat freckled red head that looked like she stuck her finger in a socket. They were having a fun little game. So, it doesnt matter how much more beautiful you(the wife) are, your husband will eye up anyone who looks his way. Because most men are disrespectful horny pig animalsIt's always the one you least expect...the one your husband says, "OH no, I wouldn't mess with her, you must be out of your mind if you think I would do her,..she is fat and bald." That is exactly the woman who will spend every waking moment trying to trap, and entice and coddle your husband. . Nasty self-degrading whores. Not sure how that is a dream. Dreams and "happy ever afters" are beautiful and magical, not made from infidelity, trickery, and betrayal. ....I'm not hostile or anything.
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6/5/2008 2:54 pm |
I must confess, I've been 'the matress' AKA mistress, 'bit on the side' MMMMM maybe having three Childen together promotes us a bit, well he was there when our fist was born and soon after She died too, and while not being present at our second and thirds births (at home) well even their deliveries was so quick the Midwife only got there on time to say, 'Congratulations. MMM lost track of what i was saying, night, night all XX Oh he lived a double life for 8and a half years  Treat me with respect and I'll treat you the same
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6/5/2008 2:54 pm |
hmhmhm Now you got me back to the time when i was young and my grandpa was living... he was a simple man but we often had chances to talk about all kind of situations.. what i see in this is... they both lie..she is laying( hmhm is this the right conjugation of the verb to lie ? ) i always confuse it with to lay down lol ) ok back..she is laying to herself that he realy loves her and he is laying to everybody. himself , his wife and to her... she might be that felt in love, is not the first time when this is happening ..did she knew when she meet him that he is married.. and if she knew did she care that her relations with him might hurt deeply the other woman? his wife? Seems to me he wont divorce to get your friend as wife or gf, which means he respect or even love his wife enought to not make such huge step... your female friend was just a "happy hours" and why? Because she offered herself unconditional...and she felt in love They both live in lies..as my grandpa use to say.. a life lived in lie is only half lived... she is crying ,,, is this really worth it? And i should not be so judgeful, but happened that my ex husbant left me for my best girlfriend... then he cheated her as well... "the weels are made to turn around".....my father used to say... ...is not getting out from my mind what you say...he told her he loves her.... yet things are not going good between them..... and i wonder what he is telling home to his wife? grrrrrrrrrrrrrr a story a la Florin ....( dont ask details )
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6/5/2008 5:39 pm |
Kettle of fish my friend....and I think most of what you have had left on your page is note worthy. I won't add my two cents...but I applaud you for having a friend that feels safe enough to tell you that they are in a relationship that they really should not be, and you offer sincere counsel. Michelle 
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6/5/2008 7:04 pm |
wow! i think dont have much experience on this kind of situation. but reading ur post seems to me that ur friend is madly in love with the married guy..well obviously! anyways, i'm thinking out loud here. it seems to me (and i am prepared to be corrected on this) that women appear to be more monogamous than men. men on the other hand, seem to be able to stay married to one woman for various reasons... yet don't consider it 'wrong' to enter into a relationship with another woman?  heard lots of stories about this and no offense meant but i wud say; men are great liars and they will say anything to get what they want. they will whine and bitch about their wives yet they go home to her every night and foot the household bills and take her on vacation! i guess, ur friend needs to ask herself if she is getting what she wants out of this kind of relationship or she is settling for table scraps. oh geez! re-read what i wrote here and good grief! i'm getting way too intelletual??  thanks for sharing this story.. now, i have to be careful in choosing a man..hehe  daphne JuSt An OrDiNaRy GiRl WiTh XtRa OrDiNaRy DrEaMs! 
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6/5/2008 7:50 pm |
Maybe these naive woman have had horrible experiences and feel that any love is better than no love...even if it means a married man who probably is just enjoying getting some. Me though? Nah, not my cup of tea a married man...I mean, why would I want to share? Now, if Clive Owen were to come a knock knock knocking at my door...that's a completely different story. That man could have 14 other wives and I would change my name for him...among other things  Much Love,CaptainPrincess 
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6/5/2008 8:18 pm |
hmm it's really not much different then the guys reasons as there is a pay-off... unconscious mostly in choosing unavailable men; an inner contradiction. It is also a sign of a low self-esteem by accepting less then what she is worth; a man she doesn't have to share. Most of this is buried in her past on what love is and what she is really deserving. I'm definitely not judging and attempting to answer your question thru everything I've learned from human behavior. It's sad and your friend needs to do some self soul searching because she's not giving herself happiness. Another aspect that sounds unkind is the lack of personal integrity of both her and the man... what about the wife eh. If he really was going to leave her, he'd have done so. There really is no excuse for how he's behaving towards his wife or your friend. hope that made sense she is fortunate to have you to tell her straight and some of it may get thru... cheers 'To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others'..Buddha
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6/5/2008 8:31 pm |
hello there...gotten rid of my hatchet...if you don't recall i was hatchetmistress...I liked your article..yes to go after a married man is quite stupid...because who is to know how crazy the wife is...that itself is a no no....omg..!
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6/5/2008 10:53 pm |
why does a woman who is having an affair with a married man automatically assume that he is telling her the truth when he is already lying to his wife? Rule #!1 Never, Ever get involved with a married man Thanks GB for leaving your thought behind on my line If you love someone, set them free 
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6/5/2008 11:41 pm |
Maybe she is naive, or there is the hope that he will leave his wife for her? Maybe there is crazy good sex? Or gifts and other things? This is where I don't mind when the mistress suffers. However I was never in that situation and hope to never be in my life. Men lie that they are not married...you never know. Tell her to get an account on FF and find a single guy to make her happy!  "Never look back, the future is so close!" Angie
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6/6/2008 4:58 am |
I've never been in that situation, but probably for the reason you mention. I'd think twice about getting involved with someone who is a cheat. I had a friend who did get involved with a married man, and the guy in question did leave his wife for her, but alas, he eventually cheated on her also. He left her for her older sister ... Interesting post have a good weekend  Blog Muse2u 
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6/6/2008 6:35 am |
A married man is the most unattractive man to me. That ring on the hand is like....leprosy. You look away REAL fast! The worst part is when he is eyeing you up like some horny pig, right in front of his wife. Happens to me all the time. Sick disrespectful A-holes. And my husband would do it to me, and be looking at really ugly women, that is the biggest insult. The last time I watched him at the grocery store, he was eyeing up some really ugly fat freckled red head that looked like she stuck her finger in a socket. They were having a fun little game. So, it doesnt matter how much more beautiful you(the wife) are, your husband will eye up anyone who looks his way. Because most men are disrespectful horny pig animalsIt's always the one you least expect...the one your husband says, "OH no, I wouldn't mess with her, you must be out of your mind if you think I would do her,..she is fat and bald." That is exactly the woman who will spend every waking moment trying to trap, and entice and coddle your husband. . Nasty self-degrading whores. Not sure how that is a dream. Dreams and "happy ever afters" are beautiful and magical, not made from infidelity, trickery, and betrayal. ....I'm not hostile or anything. _____________________________ Catch you on the flip side
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6/6/2008 6:37 am |
I must confess, I've been 'the matress' AKA mistress, 'bit on the side' MMMMM maybe having three Childen together promotes us a bit, well he was there when our fist was born and soon after She died too, and while not being present at our second and thirds births (at home) well even their deliveries was so quick the Midwife only got there on time to say, 'Congratulations. MMM lost track of what i was saying, night, night all XX Oh he lived a double life for 8and a half years> _____________________________ Catch you on the flip side
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6/6/2008 7:16 am |
Gower.. I had a friend in the same situation... very smart very educated but also very insecure and naive. I think it's a lot of things that cause a woman to fall in love with a married man... Some of it has to do with wanting love and to be loved and not really caring by whom. Sometimes it's pride and selfishnes " I can have anyone I want" attitude, and sometimes it's just by pure accident the " I never intended to fall in love with this guy but damnit I did!" It's human nature to want what we can't always have, yes I was the friend that she called in the middle of night crying her eyes out because he was at home with his wife and he promised to be with her.. or everytime she seen him in public with his wife and children she had to act as though she didn't know him but what always baffled me was how she clung to him as though he was the last man on this planet. Love is strange and it really doesn't have a respect of person when we fall we fall for hard and sometimes, most times for the wrong person. And there are men who spot this and are able to manipulate it.
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6/6/2008 7:22 am |
Yes, it is very, very wrong! Dammit, to keep a man from his beer ... it's definitely a crime! Hell, I have more friends than I can count who go through this. It exasperates the hell out of me. And although I try not to be judgmental and still love them as friends, to be honest, I lose a lot of respect for them. The fact that they feel entitled to cry and whine about their lot when they imposed that upon themselves ... well, I always ask them if they do not wonder if the bloke's wife is not going through the same. Right before I tell them to get a bloody grip and stop whining. Still, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. And before people start on at me for being unsympathetic because I have never been there before, I have been in situations where I have been attracted to someone who was either married or attached. Regardless of whatever feelings I had for them, one thing always stopped me. I remember my mother's tears every night my father was with another woman. I would never want to be the cause of that to another woman and her child. I'm not sure about extenuating circumstances. Either a woman knows in advance that the guy is married, and therefore being unfaithful to his wife, or she finds out later, which means he lied to her too. *wanders off scratching head at the ways of the world*
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6/6/2008 7:23 am |
Chicks are crazy. Cheers! 
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6/6/2008 7:40 am |
Sometimes we can't help who we love...I guess that's obvious. And love isn't objective. I really think we should tread carefully around any generalizations here as each situation and person is so different. There are as many reasons for why people choose to love certain people as there are people. But, all that aside, there are personalities and human commonalities which draw us to a certain type of love. Like women (and men) who fall in love with people who need to be "fixed" or "mommied," the same may be true for those who fall in love with people they can't have. Then there's the trust issue. Phew. That's a big one and I don't understand it. I think this is where 'the each situation is unique' conundrum must play out. Maybe maybe maybe there are a million reasons he has lied (and lets face it, she's a liar now, too). Is it that age-old flagellation need? On both parts? Yikes. Stop asking so many questions! And close your eyes, dammit. Love's not objective, okay. We can't help who we love...okay, up to a point. But like you say...falling for someone you know is a liar and a cheat is masochism, and masochists shouldn't complain about pain. If you do complain about the pain, you're evidently not a masochist, so what were you thinking? (Using "you" in the general sense here of course, he added after rereading). One reason to lie or a million still makes the person a liar.
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6/6/2008 7:48 am |
you surprise me. Didn't think you were serious about male and female ways of thinking. You want an answer fitting to those stereotypes? want an answer that fits any kind of stereotype. I'm not sure that there is any answer. I'm just constantly surprised by the ability of people to get themselves into situations they know from the start are going to be damaging in the long term. Plus, I never claimed to be consistent.
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6/6/2008 7:55 am |
You need to learn how to just be a friend and not pass judgement. It takes a long time to learn this. For me, I had to lose a friend, then re-accept a different one back into my life in effort to learn the skill. Learn the skill, you'll be a better friend. It's not your job to save your friend from percieved heartache. You are not her fortune teller. or his. All that said, people should get divorced or at least separated before starting new relationships, it's only fair. I for sure would never get involved with a married man myself, but insecure women like some satisfaction of thinking they are better than the wife, whom they are really envious of. I think it stems (for women) from having a passive mother...and overall poor boundaries. i've never messed with a married man. being able to tell the other person exactly what you think about a given situation. It's too late to save her from heartache, that's already happened. You're right about people needing to end existing relationships before embarking on new ones.
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6/6/2008 8:09 am |
I agree with elaine. There are so many 'different' reasons why women love the wrong men. Even to us sometimes we don't even understand why. To think I have pondered this question for the past 30 years and I still don't understand why or have an answer. Just be the friend she needs and pick up the pieces when you have to. I'm sure that will happen at some point and a friend is what she will need. Oh and take a beer or three with you, you might be there a while I think I'm a little hard with her, but then a part of me says, "Well, what did you think you were getting into here?" Occasionally I'll say it out loud, too, but the reply is always the same..... "I don't know." At least she keeps beer in her fridge. A fine gesture from a non-drinker.
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6/6/2008 8:10 am |
A married man is the most unattractive man to me. That ring on the hand is like....leprosy. You look away REAL fast! The worst part is when he is eyeing you up like some horny pig, right in front of his wife. Happens to me all the time. Sick disrespectful A-holes. And my husband would do it to me, and be looking at really ugly women, that is the biggest insult. The last time I watched him at the grocery store, he was eyeing up some really ugly fat freckled red head that looked like she stuck her finger in a socket. They were having a fun little game. So, it doesnt matter how much more beautiful you(the wife) are, your husband will eye up anyone who looks his way. Because most men are disrespectful horny pig animalsIt's always the one you least expect...the one your husband says, "OH no, I wouldn't mess with her, you must be out of your mind if you think I would do her,..she is fat and bald." That is exactly the woman who will spend every waking moment trying to trap, and entice and coddle your husband. . Nasty self-degrading whores. Not sure how that is a dream. Dreams and "happy ever afters" are beautiful and magical, not made from infidelity, trickery, and betrayal. ....I'm not hostile or anything. Signed: just another disrespectful horny pig animal
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6/6/2008 8:27 am |
I must confess, I've been 'the matress' AKA mistress, 'bit on the side' MMMMM maybe having three Childen together promotes us a bit, well he was there when our fist was born and soon after She died too, and while not being present at our second and thirds births (at home) well even their deliveries was so quick the Midwife only got there on time to say, 'Congratulations. MMM lost track of what i was saying, night, night all XX Oh he lived a double life for 8and a half years>
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6/6/2008 8:32 am |
hmhmhm Now you got me back to the time when i was young and my grandpa was living... he was a simple man but we often had chances to talk about all kind of situations.. what i see in this is... they both lie..she is laying( hmhm is this the right conjugation of the verb to lie ? ) i always confuse it with to lay down lol ) ok back..she is laying to herself that he realy loves her and he is laying to everybody. himself , his wife and to her... she might be that felt in love, is not the first time when this is happening ..did she knew when she meet him that he is married.. and if she knew did she care that her relations with him might hurt deeply the other woman? his wife? Seems to me he wont divorce to get your friend as wife or gf, which means he respect or even love his wife enought to not make such huge step... your female friend was just a "happy hours" and why? Because she offered herself unconditional...and she felt in love They both live in lies..as my grandpa use to say.. a life lived in lie is only half lived... she is crying ,,, is this really worth it? And i should not be so judgeful, but happened that my ex husbant left me for my best girlfriend... then he cheated her as well... "the weels are made to turn around".....my father used to say... ...is not getting out from my mind what you say...he told her he loves her.... yet things are not going good between them..... and i wonder what he is telling home to his wife? grrrrrrrrrrrrrr a story a la Florin ....( dont ask details ) the things she'd always wanted, her guard came down. What I don't understand is why she dropped her guard when she knew he lied to his wife. lie - lying lay - laying
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6/6/2008 8:35 am |
wow! i think dont have much experience on this kind of situation. but reading ur post seems to me that ur friend is madly in love with the married guy..well obviously! anyways, i'm thinking out loud here. it seems to me (and i am prepared to be corrected on this) that women appear to be more monogamous than men. men on the other hand, seem to be able to stay married to one woman for various reasons... yet don't consider it 'wrong' to enter into a relationship with another woman? heard lots of stories about this and no offense meant but i wud say; men are great liars and they will say anything to get what they want. they will whine and bitch about their wives yet they go home to her every night and foot the household bills and take her on vacation! i guess, ur friend needs to ask herself if she is getting what she wants out of this kind of relationship or she is settling for table scraps. oh geez! re-read what i wrote here and good grief! i'm getting way too intelletual??thanks for sharing this story.. now, i have to be careful in choosing a man..hehe daphne Hence the teary phone calls. Careful with the man choosing.
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6/6/2008 8:43 am |
I'm not serious about male and female ways of thinking, and I don't want an answer that fits any kind of stereotype. I'm not sure that there is any answer. I'm just constantly surprised by the ability of people to get themselves into situations they know from the start are going to be damaging in the long term. Plus, I never claimed to be consistent. I think you would write a great post about that.I came here to apologize. I don't like my comment anymore, it is rude and inconsistent with my way of thinking. People have right to believe on whatever they like and that includes you ... though my expectations regarding you are higher Well, you could feel a bit proud about that and accept my excuse I'm sorry for being rude ... about your friend? Well, people choose their paths and have to bear the consequences.
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6/6/2008 8:44 am |
Kettle of fish my friend....and I think most of what you have had left on your page is note worthy. I won't add my two cents...but I applaud you for having a friend that feels safe enough to tell you that they are in a relationship that they really should not be, and you offer sincere counsel. When asked for advice in situations involving lying cheating men, I find the best policy is to be sincere...otherwise the whole thing becomes some sick game. (I'll tell you about my ulterior motives later...oops)
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6/6/2008 8:46 am |
Maybe these naive woman have had horrible experiences and feel that any love is better than no love...even if it means a married man who probably is just enjoying getting some. Me though? Nah, not my cup of tea a married man...I mean, why would I want to share? Now, if Clive Owen were to come a knock knock knocking at my door...that's a completely different story. That man could have 14 other wives and I would change my name for him...among other things
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6/6/2008 8:56 am |
hmm it's really not much different then the guys reasons as there is a pay-off... unconscious mostly in choosing unavailable men; an inner contradiction. It is also a sign of a low self-esteem by accepting less then what she is worth; a man she doesn't have to share. Most of this is buried in her past on what love is and what she is really deserving. I'm definitely not judging and attempting to answer your question thru everything I've learned from human behavior. It's sad and your friend needs to do some self soul searching because she's not giving herself happiness. Another aspect that sounds unkind is the lack of personal integrity of both her and the man... what about the wife eh. If he really was going to leave her, he'd have done so. There really is no excuse for how he's behaving towards his wife or your friend. hope that made sense she is fortunate to have you to tell her straight and some of it may get thru... cheers Which is only making her feel worse than she already did. It's not that I'm telling her anything that she doesn't know, it's that sometimes people have to hear what they already know they should do.
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6/6/2008 9:00 am |
hello there...gotten rid of my hatchet...if you don't recall i was hatchetmistress...I liked your article..yes to go after a married man is quite stupid...because who is to know how crazy the wife is...that itself is a no no....omg..! There is always the "Fatal Attraction" danger, yes.
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6/6/2008 9:02 am |
why does a woman who is having an affair with a married man automatically assume that he is telling her the truth when he is already lying to his wife? Rule #!1 Never, Ever get involved with a married man Thanks GB for leaving your thought behind on my line You're welcome.
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6/6/2008 9:11 am |
Maybe she is naive, or there is the hope that he will leave his wife for her? Maybe there is crazy good sex? Or gifts and other things? This is where I don't mind when the mistress suffers. However I was never in that situation and hope to never be in my life. Men lie that they are not married...you never know. Tell her to get an account on FF and find a single guy to make her happy! she was naive to have believed him, but it's too late for that now. She's Spanish, I'll send her to amigos.com
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6/6/2008 9:12 am |
I've never been in that situation, but probably for the reason you mention. I'd think twice about getting involved with someone who is a cheat. I had a friend who did get involved with a married man, and the guy in question did leave his wife for her, but alas, he eventually cheated on her also. He left her for her older sister ... Interesting post have a good weekend
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6/6/2008 9:14 am |
Chicks are crazy. Thanks.
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6/6/2008 9:35 am |
People's consistency ... I think you would write a great post about that.I came here to apologize. I don't like my comment anymore, it is rude and inconsistent with my way of thinking. People have right to believe on whatever they like and that includes you ... though my expectations regarding you are higher Well, you could feel a bit proud about that and accept my excuse I'm sorry for being rude ... about your friend? Well, people choose their paths and have to bear the consequences.post, and wondering about this one specific instance of human behaviour; the ability to distort reality in order to delude ourselves. It came out as being a little stereotypical overall, but that wasn't my intention. I was just focused on my friend's situation and perplexed as to how she could have let herself get into it in the first place. I liked your comment (and it did make me feel a little bit proud). Do we shake hands now?
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6/6/2008 10:31 am |
No apology necessary. I really was thinking out loud when writing the post, and wondering about this one specific instance of human behaviour; the ability to distort reality in order to delude ourselves. It came out as being a little stereotypical overall, but that wasn't my intention. I was just focused on my friend's situation and perplexed as to how she could have let herself get into it in the first place. I liked your comment (and it did make me feel a little bit proud). Do we shake hands now? shaking hands only if at about 1,2m distance with a very formal bow as the Finns do or .. why not hugs and kisses as we do here around?  Hahahaha, now you have to do it back ... or do you want the little finger?
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6/6/2008 1:14 pm |
people believe they can change people instead of accepting them for who they are thanks for reading and as per Dave Allen "May your God go with you"
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6/6/2008 1:48 pm |
Life has such potential for unexpected pain and tragedy that I can't understand why a woman would be willing to wound another woman/family in this way, let alone how the man involved could. Even when someone wasn't married but had a girl friend I would never spend time with them when I was single. I have a young friend (26) who so often used to end up with guys who already had a woman. Why ? Her father is a soul squasher and I just think she thought herself not good enough to love. With the last guy she kept going on about I asked her if she wanted to know what I thought. Knowing me, she nervously said yes. I voiced my opinion about not being an agent of pain for another woman, and then I took her hands so she would look in my eyes and said "G ---- You're better than this. You deserve more than some other woman's left overs. " She cried and didn't call for a while. Today she told me about a single guy that she's interested in and told me she had gotten rid of the other guy's photos etc. Maybe she's catching on. I've had men in relationships come on to me more times than I can stomach and it literally turns my stomach whenever it happens.
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6/6/2008 1:50 pm |
PS. I think it's refreshing to have you join our earthly concerns. An intelligent (well intentioned) man's take on relationships is valuable and useful.
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6/6/2008 2:47 pm |
Ah, there you are. Stop hiding. When asked for advice in situations involving lying cheating men, I find the best policy is to be sincere...otherwise the whole thing becomes some sick game. (I'll tell you about my ulterior motives later...oops) I am with Flame on this...it is very refreshing to see this side of you....multifaceted just like a diamond you are....... Michelle
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6/6/2008 4:53 pm |
Clive Owen is hott but not even for him ... Well, one of the extenuating circumstances which one of my friends got into was because the man was separated from his wife. They had been separated for a long time but never got divorced as they were both devout Catholics. The wife, herself, had a boyfriend. And this man told my friend right from the start that he was married. So to give him his due, he was an honest adulterer. My eyebrow used to go up when she would tell me about their relationship. Just sounded too dysfunctional but hey, if everyone involved was happy, what beeswax is it of mine? Then the man had cancer and he was dying. That was when it went pear shaped. Suddenly the wife was back in the picture and wanted to do the wifely thing. Which involved taking over all his assets and care. And my friend was shafted. All very sad and terribly messy. So, that's the one extenuating circumstance. Just talking about this is making me need to have a beer ... In the immortal words from 6th Sense ... I see stupid people.
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6/6/2008 7:59 pm |
Still sick but had to put in my two cents' worth. There's no one reason why some women do this, but based on two friends I know who went into relationships with married men, they never really intended to get into it, the way I bet your friend never set out to do so either. One friend was led to believe by her lover that he was already separated, that divorce was in the offing anytime soon. He played the "my wife doesn't understand me" card and my friend fell for it hook, line and sinker. Almost 5 years down the line, he's still married, and she's still with him, knowing now that they had all been lines just to hook her. I ask her why she stays, and she gave me two answers that I think best represents how most women in relationships with married men feel-- 1. Because there's nobody else who would have me. (She's in her late 40s and truly has low self esteem issues) 2. Because you can't turn emotions off like water on tap. Like you, I constantly tell her she deserves better than this, and that after almost 5 years, I don't think he'll ever leave his wife for her. I keep encouraging her to walk away, and sometimes she tells me sometimes she almost gets enough gumption to do it. Then he calls her, romances her, and all her willpower turns to dust. I realize this doesn't hold true for all women--there are women who consciously go after married men, just to prove something. Which brings me to a related point--I get hit on more often now that I'm married than I ever had been when I was single. Most of my married girlfriends have the same experience, and I believe it's because for most men, married women are prime targets for a little slap and tickle because they're "safe", so to speak. Since we're married, for single men bent on avoiding the matrimonial trap, we're ideal because we won't demand anything. For married men who want a little on the side, we're also ideal because if we do have an affair, we'd have as much reason to keep things quiet as they do, which wouldn't be the same if, say, they hooked up with a single gal, who could cause trouble for them. I'm not naive, I know what they're after, so I don't even feel flattered by the attention. It's actually insulting that they think I would even consider what they're thinking, the d1ckheads. And I automatically have a low opinion of men who would hit on married women. As a good friend of mine said, real life is a lot more sordid than you think. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/6/2008 9:53 pm |
I fear to comment, because I've been down some sordid paths, myself. But I suppose I can offer some perspective. First - a woman gets attracted for purely emotional reasons. Logic and common sense usually arrive too late, and by then, they only serve to justify the decision she's already made. It's not that she's buying what he tells her, about how imminent his divorce will be, or how his wife doesn't "understand" him or whatever. She needs to hear that, and he needs to say it, so that neither of them will feel like swine for acting on physical/emotional impulses. Also, while I completely agree with Munchkin about WHY many men hit on married women, I cannot stress enough how easily it can backfire on a guy. Happily married women don't cheat. So when a woman does stray from her husband, she's more than open to falling in love, and possibly even making her "secret" lover the center of her universe. Then the "no-strings" arrangement starts to more resemble battleship chains. And there's no way for it to end happily. Gowerboy -- as for your friend, I feel for all of you. But in some indirect way, your counsel, as well-intentioned and blunt as it's been, might only fuel the engines that keep her running to that married guy. It empowers her sense of drama, triggers the emotional loops that create her hunger for him. It might be worth a try, to recognize the futility in trying to convince her logically, and just WALK AWAY. If she wanted advice, she'd take advice. Sometimes, a woman just wants to talk about a guy because she misses him, not because she is looking to change anything. ~ Brian
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6/7/2008 6:12 am |
Brian is right there about the drama. I've noticed that often both parties involved seem to be caught up in the forbidden fruit thing. My dog adores cat food,... on the sneak. He lives for evening when we close down the kitchen and he can go and drink water and quietly gobble up the cat food. When I decided to just put dry cat kibble in his dish and see what happened he ignored the cat kibble.(just a sort of parable). By the way, I know a man who was strung along by a woman who was living with the father of her son, for 12 years as she kept telling him that the arrangement was so that she could work and he could babysit. MM - I'm surprised at how many married men, even close friends and a family members by marriage make passes at a married woman ( even one as ancient as me). It's doubly annoying and distasteful when it's a "friend" of your husband's . My mom said her aunt used to say, "They can't help it dear... it's all that outside plumbing they have..." The generation prior to mine excused it all - especially on the part of the poor man... it was the evil Eve who "broke up the marriage." This human issue thing got me thinking GB. I feel a poll coming on.
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6/7/2008 10:03 am |
Brian is right there about the drama. I've noticed that often both parties involved seem to be caught up in the forbidden fruit thing. My dog adores cat food,... on the sneak. He lives for evening when we close down the kitchen and he can go and drink water and quietly gobble up the cat food. When I decided to just put dry cat kibble in his dish and see what happened he ignored the cat kibble.(just a sort of parable). By the way, I know a man who was strung along by a woman who was living with the father of her son, for 12 years as she kept telling him that the arrangement was so that she could work and he could babysit. MM - I'm surprised at how many married men, even close friends and a family members by marriage make passes at a married woman ( even one as ancient as me). It's doubly annoying and distasteful when it's a "friend" of your husband's . My mom said her aunt used to say, "They can't help it dear... it's all that outside plumbing they have..." The generation prior to mine excused it all - especially on the part of the poor man... it was the evil Eve who "broke up the marriage." This human issue thing got me thinking GB. I feel a poll coming on. Online, when I was a newbie, I had quite a lot of men who wanted to chat on IM with me just "to be friends". After a while, I had to block a few of them for being so blatantly aggressive, and with a lot more, they faded away after I refused to pick up on their subtle hints. I suppose they went looking for someone more accommodating--so much for "friendship". Nowadays I have a lot more women on my IM than men, but the few men I do have on my list are ones I trust won't ever cross the boundary. (Sorry to yak on your blog, gow) I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/7/2008 10:15 am |
You'd change your socks for him, too? Much Love,CaptainPrincess
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6/7/2008 10:54 am |
Simple answer...and I have given this to my daughter...who, bless her, is still innocent in the life of relationships....... Women will give sex for love, and men will give 'love' for sex. Love of course is attention, and Brian is right, women are emotion based creatures. So any attention ends up being a mixed up version of love, in the needy woman's head. I am in a healed marriage, healed because there were some very rocky spots at one time. I have been the stupid cow that looked outside of her marriage,....(look at me how ever you choose I have met, fought, and buried my demons).....If a person is feeling unloved, unappreciated, and all around fecked up because the one person that they believed would die for them, is in their own tornado of feeling unloved, unappreciated, and all around fecked up, and just can not pull it together on their own....it can mean disaster. By nature human beings are selfish and self centered. I had to work at not being that way, I still have to work at not being that way. My husband was going through something I could not help him with. But I was also getting left behind emotionally in our marriage. I found a "friend", that made me laugh, and listened to my dreams, and complimented me on everything from my looks to my poorly written emails. I found out he was in a 'bad' marriage...wouldn't you know. It was so stupid, in hind-sight. I just shake my head at my own foolishness. Long story short, if I had just given my husband something to hold onto earlier on things could have went much differently then they had. We did get things sewn back together, but I had to nearly die in a car wreck for the entire sordid scandal to get out in the open. Am I proud of any of this....not at all...but I understand how selfishness, self centered thinking can get you steeped in quick sand in a big hurry. Like MM...I have no respect for a guy that hits on a married woman, but I have less respect for a woman that wont | ||
