 | Blogs > gowerboy > thoughtsfromtheedge > What the feck is that all about? # 4 |
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gowerboy
9/22/2008 6:47 am |
According to their website: The American Psychological Association (APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world's largest association of psychologists. APA's membership includes more than 148,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 54 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 60 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting human welfare. (my italics) How nice then, to see that this association has recently voted not to allow its members to work in settings where "persons are held outside of, or in violation of, either International Law (e.g., the UN Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions) or the US Constitution (where appropriate), unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights". They've basically decided that Torture is professionally unethical. 8,792 members voted in favor of the resolution. Not a huge percentage given that membership is approaching 150,000. What worries me, however, are the 6,157 members who voted against the resolution. Do they really feel that under certain circumstances, like that sacred catch-all "national security", techniques like waterboarding (see picture) are justified? It also begs the question as to why they became psychologists in the first place. In the medical professions there is a fine line between care and control, and in the fields of psychiatry and psychology this line often becomes an overlap. The attitude that "we know what is best for you" can easily become "do what we say or we will not help you". Unfortunately, in the case of those 6,000 plus psychologists who believe their profession has a role to play in psychologically pressurising "enemy combatants" in contravention of international law, the attitude seems to be "we know how to break you". Even more telling is the fact that around 90% of the membership failed to vote. Just as in the wider world, apathy reigns. What the feck is that all about? |
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9/22/2008 7:07 am |
What should we do? Cheers! 
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9/22/2008 7:46 am |
The term "psychological warfare" takes on a whole new meaning, and has never sounded so sinister. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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 9/22/2008 7:53 am |
The people who voted against...are the people who vote Republican in US. Conservatives...blah. So there you have it. And the fact that 90% of the membership failed to vote, seems like apathy reigns alright, or may just be they care more for the fallen economy then other stuff at this point in time. Oh well, let hope things CHANGE!!!!  "Never look back, the future is so close!" Angie
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9/22/2008 7:56 am |
I always think that some psychologists and psychoanalysts might have more severe problems than their patients. Ack. (The waterboarding picture is scary) Agnes 
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9/22/2008 8:55 am |
Just like here in Germany between 1929 and 1945. It´s always easy if you can say...I did not know. So look away and deny. Doesn´t the word humane get a nasty taste??
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9/22/2008 10:24 am |
6,157 members who voted against the resolution geh...hope I don't run into any of those members on the street sometime...  Even more telling is the fact that around 90% of the membership failed to vote. Just as in the wider world, apathy reigns. Scary. Take What You Want. Leave What You Don't. 
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9/22/2008 12:53 pm |
I've had first hand experience with "psychiatrists"-- and to put it briefly, and very mildly, it wasn't good. I've discovered that they are protected here and takes almost an act of parliament to deal with their wrong doings. It troubles me deeply when people in the healing professions use their abilities to do precisely the opposite. Sad state of affairs when so many don't care enough to take the time to vote and/or vote against the fundamental ethical principle of their profession which is to do no harm. Sad, sad, sad. Wishing you happiness Misty
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9/22/2008 4:51 pm |
hi mano. it is a mixed bag of emotions here for me. i believe in, you get what you give maybe i lost focus dan 
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 9/22/2008 5:50 pm |
To me, resorting to any form of physical torture such as water boarding represents a failure of psychology, and of humanity. It does not take a PhD to understand that pain, discomfort and the threat of injury or death could break a person. I feel sophisticated enough now, in 2008, to say that all forms of torture are wrong, and that my government shouldn't be employing them. But seven years ago? When I watched with horror as those buildings came down? When I learned that such an attack originated inside a regime where women could be stoned to death in public? I was angry and I wanted my government to pursue, punish and destroy those criminals by any means it could. I did not expect my government to use that as leverage to deceive us (and the UK) into a totally separate adventure in Iraq, though. ~ B.
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9/23/2008 1:24 am |
so unsa?  (¯`v´¯) `*.¸.*´ ¸.•´¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•smile and be happy always
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9/23/2008 5:00 am |
What should we do?
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9/23/2008 5:08 am |
The term "psychological warfare" takes on a whole new meaning, and has never sounded so sinister.
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9/23/2008 5:16 am |
The people who voted against...are the people who vote Republican in US. Conservatives...blah. So there you have it. And the fact that 900f the membership failed to vote, seems like apathy reigns alright, or may just be they care more for the fallen economy then other stuff at this point in time. Oh well, let hope things CHANGE!!!! The economy might be failing, but I find it shocking that so few members of a professional body - in which ethics play a major role - could be so preoccupied as to ignore or not care about such a fundamental issue. A change is gonna come, as Sam Cooke sang.
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9/23/2008 5:18 am |
I always think that some psychologists and psychoanalysts might have more severe problems than their patients. Ack. (The waterboarding picture is scary) I don't think I'll ever use cellophane again.
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9/23/2008 5:26 am |
Just like here in Germany between 1929 and 1945. It´s always easy if you can say...I did not know. So look away and deny. Doesn´t the word humane get a nasty taste??
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9/23/2008 5:29 am |
6,157 members who voted against the resolution geh...hope I don't run into any of those members on the street sometime... Even more telling is the fact that around 900f the membership failed to vote. Just as in the wider world, apathy reigns. Scary.
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9/23/2008 5:31 am |
I've had first hand experience with "psychiatrists"-- and to put it briefly, and very mildly, it wasn't good. I've discovered that they are protected here and takes almost an act of parliament to deal with their wrong doings. It troubles me deeply when people in the healing professions use their abilities to do precisely the opposite. Sad state of affairs when so many don't care enough to take the time to vote and/or vote against the fundamental ethical principle of their profession which is to do no harm. Sad, sad, sad. Doing things helps.
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9/23/2008 5:39 am |
hi mano. it is a mixed bag of emotions here for me. i believe in, you get what you give maybe i lost focus dan Suddenly, he is bundled into the back of a truck by armed soldiers, where he is blindfolded and drugged. When he awakes fully he is thousands of miles away from his home, dressed in an orange jumpsuit and surrounded by barbed wire and guns. Every day he is interrogated about things he knows nothing about. He begins to think they've mistaken him for someone else by the same name. For the first few years his family think he is dead. Then they find out he's alive, but they can't see him or write to him. A few years later he is allowed a defence lawyer. This man is still there. Life isn't always about getting what you give, Dan.
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9/23/2008 5:41 am |
To me, resorting to any form of physical torture such as water boarding represents a failure of psychology, and of humanity. It does not take a PhD to understand that pain, discomfort and the threat of injury or death could break a person. I feel sophisticated enough now, in 2008, to say that all forms of torture are wrong, and that my government shouldn't be employing them. But seven years ago? When I watched with horror as those buildings came down? When I learned that such an attack originated inside a regime where women could be stoned to death in public? I was angry and I wanted my government to pursue, punish and destroy those criminals by any means it could. I did not expect my government to use that as leverage to deceive us (and the UK) into a totally separate adventure in Iraq, though. ~ B. So why didn't the US invade Saudi Arabia?
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9/23/2008 5:43 am |
so unsa?
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9/23/2008 10:33 am |
Torture is FUN (as long as you are not the one being Tortured). Just ask the Roman who invented the brazen bull...and then got cooked inside! People think doctors and psychiatrists chose their fields because they are compassionate. In USA, that is definitely NOT the case most of the time. There are two classes of people in USA: doctors (wealthy)...and patients (more likely poor). Just spilled my guts about Heather!
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9/23/2008 1:16 pm |
No... I refuse to be drawn to comment on "psychologists". They are number 2 on my ban list... Religion my number 1. Another great post GB. and some interesting comments/replies. By the way, I have a spare pair of flippers and snorkeling kit if you need it?? I believe you have it quite bad there? Tone. 
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9/23/2008 7:55 pm |
When I learned that such an attack originated inside a regime where women could be stoned to death in public? I was angry and I wanted my government to pursue, punish and destroy those criminals by any means it could. So why didn't the US invade Saudi Arabia?
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9/24/2008 10:31 am |
Torture is FUN (as long as you are not the one being Tortured). Just ask the Roman who invented the brazen bull...and then got cooked inside! People think doctors and psychiatrists chose their fields because they are compassionate. In USA, that is definitely NOT the case most of the time. There are two classes of people in USA: doctors (wealthy)...and patients (more likely poor).
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9/24/2008 10:37 am |
No... I refuse to be drawn to comment on "psychologists". They are number 2 on my ban list... Religion my number 1. Another great post GB. and some interesting comments/replies. By the way, I have a spare pair of flippers and snorkeling kit if you need it?? I believe you have it quite bad there? Tone. Got a spare dinghy?
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9/24/2008 10:40 am |
I think we both can answer that question.
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9/25/2008 12:20 pm |
don't you think this is just part of what humans are? the large majority in apathy, then there are some trying to hide their violent instincts/acts and some others trying to hold these last ones or move the first ones. Bah, this wine must be a bad one 
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9/30/2008 2:37 am |
don't you think this is just part of what humans are? the large majority in apathy, then there are some trying to hide their violent instincts/acts and some others trying to hold these last ones or move the first ones. Bah, this wine must be a bad one Switch to Spanish wine.
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10/17/2008 6:30 am |
*sneaks in...looking for something to steal...again* I'm turning into a klepto...can't help it. Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to.
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10/19/2008 12:14 pm |
*sneaks in...looking for something to steal...again* I'm turning into a klepto...can't help it. thief
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10/30/2008 12:32 am |
stop thief Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to.
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10/31/2008 6:24 am |
outrageous thief?
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11/3/2008 9:08 pm |
The attitude that "we know what is best for you" can easily become "do what we say or we will not help you". it makes me so sad that this is how people in this field are perceived...sad for all the wonderful colleagues i have who have dedicated their lives to helping people, and sad for me because i fall into that category as well. i was, in fact, vigilantly trained to take a non-expertrole in my interactions with my clients--not to presume that i know what's best for them. so obviously i take issue with even the first part of this statement. i'd love to discuss this with you sometime. i have more to say than would be appropriate for a blog response. i'll leave you with this. i agree with you whole-heartedly--you're absolutely right--the 6000 plus members who voted against the resolution behaved abhorrently. but as with every profession or organization in the world throughout history, there have been negative or even corrupt forces at play (can you say catholic church?). it's just so demoralizing that they can cast such a shadow over the so many who do good. it hurt my heart to read some of my fellow bloggers responses about this. i understand and empathize with your frustration. please try to understand that it just makes me sad. ps...i hope you're almost done isolating. i miss the bantering we had begun to have. hope that's not too forward of me. be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/4/2008 2:30 am |
The attitude that "we know what is best for you" can easily become "do what we say or we will not help you". it makes me so sad that this is how people in this field are perceived...sad for all the wonderful colleagues i have who have dedicated their lives to helping people, and sad for me because i fall into that category as well. i was, in fact, vigilantly trained to take a non-expertrole in my interactions with my clients--not to presume that i know what's best for them. so obviously i take issue with even the first part of this statement. i'd love to discuss this with you sometime. i have more to say than would be appropriate for a blog response. i'll leave you with this. i agree with you whole-heartedly--you're absolutely right--the 6000 plus members who voted against the resolution behaved abhorrently. but as with every profession or organization in the world throughout history, there have been negative or even corrupt forces at play (can you say catholic church?). it's just so demoralizing that they can cast such a shadow over the so many who do good. it hurt my heart to read some of my fellow bloggers responses about this. i understand and empathize with your frustration. please try to understand that it just makes me sad. ps...i hope you're almost done isolating. i miss the bantering we had begun to have. hope that's not too forward of me.
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11/4/2008 9:30 am |
I was not attacking the profession as a whole. My main problem was with the tardy, apathetic response to an issue as profound as torture. I think I'm right in saying that the equivalent associations of psychiatrists and psychotherapists had taken a stand on this far earlier. you're right that the apathy sucks. i don't have an answer for it. you made me start thinking about what kept me from getting involved. i think it's the overwhelming sense of powerlessness i feel trying to be an agent of change against what seems to be such an unconquerable force. be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/4/2008 11:28 am |
i didn't mean to accuse you of attacking. really. it's just that this perception floating around out there doesn't help the already prevalent negative stigma associated with what i do. it wasn't all about just what you said either. i'm sorry if i made you feel that way. others obviously share the perception. you're right that the apathy sucks. i don't have an answer for it. you made me start thinking about what kept me from getting involved. i think it's the overwhelming sense of powerlessness i feel trying to be an agent of change against what seems to be such an unconquerable force. Unconquerable forces grow strong through the absence of opposition. (Note to self: be less aphoristic)
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11/5/2008 9:28 am |
It wasn't really much of an attack, either. More a gentle mauling. Unconquerable forces grow strong through the absence of opposition. (Note to self: be less aphoristic) and your point about the absence of opposition is well noted. (i feel as though i should hang my head in shame.) i have a feeling that i'm going to be using the words you're right a lot as i get to know you better. and finally, he's capable of notes to self. (sigh) (that was a good one by the way.) be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/6/2008 2:58 am |
gentle mauling? (smirk) funny how you can make it sound almost appealing. and your point about the absence of opposition is well noted. (i feel as though i should hang my head in shame.) i have a feeling that i'm going to be using the words you're right a lot as i get to know you better. and finally, he's capable of notes to self. (sigh) (that was a good one by the way.)
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11/6/2008 7:55 am |
Oh, I'm often wrong. I just ignore it until it fades away.  be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/6/2008 12:21 pm |
smart ass. but i like that. it always ends in tears and witty quips
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11/6/2008 1:39 pm |
never love a smart arse it always ends in tears and witty quips be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/7/2008 3:26 am |
so then, what about just loving someone's arse?
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11/7/2008 5:28 am |
[insert witty quip here] be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/7/2008 5:50 am |
and this is where i'm supposed to grab the kleenex box?
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11/7/2008 8:38 am |
Depends how dirty the arse is. i know that wasn't a witty response, but i felt the need to go with my initial gut reaction. and now i really do feel the urge to cry. pass me a tissue? be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/7/2008 10:42 am |
gross! i know that wasn't a witty response, but i felt the need to go with my initial gut reaction. and now i really do feel the urge to cry. pass me a tissue?
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11/7/2008 12:44 pm |
Here, take an aphorism. be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing.
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11/11/2008 3:46 am |
wow, you really know how to kick someone when she's down. er, wait. maybe you were trying to build me up? ya, that's how i'm going to take it. i'll just let my imagination go crazy. You probably won't read this now, but, just in case you do, where'd you go? (Your mail was deleted when you deleted your profile)
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11/12/2008 10:18 pm |
Sorry, I can be a bit flippant sometimes. You probably won't read this now, but, just in case you do, where'd you go? (Your mail was deleted when you deleted your profile) i can come across as flippant too sometimes. that's the trouble with this blasted format (im-ing and texting fall under the same category). without really knowing someone, it's difficult to know how they're really saying something. i of all people get that. you might have figured this out by now, but i don't always know when to quit. hey, like my new name? be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing
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11/13/2008 2:57 am |
i went off to discover new and unchartered territories. come to find out there really isn't any place new or unchartered...just different and sterile. i decided to come back here where it's comfier...i was surprised to realize that i missed this place. but now i feel a little silly for leaving. i'm planning on posting about it tomorrow. i'm hoping my friends will understand and want to be my friends again. (gad, i feel like i'm in high school again.) i can come across as flippant too sometimes. that's the trouble with this blasted format (im-ing and texting fall under the same category). without really knowing someone, it's difficult to know how they're really saying something. i of all people get that. you might have figured this out by now, but i don't always know when to quit. hey, like my new name? As far as the medium goes, it's easy to see why flamewars start. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt at least once, and never worry about having to apologise if I come across as short or tetchy. Let's face it, I am short and tetchy at times. Good to see you back. Nice name.
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11/13/2008 10:42 am |
Wherever you go, unless it's into hiding, you always encounter the same thing; people. And even if you go into hiding, you can never get away from yourself. I drift in and out of this place, without ever leaving. You're right, it is comfy. There are other places, but it's like moving house, it can be tiring just thinking about having to remake relationships and get to know more (of the same) people. As far as the medium goes, it's easy to see why flamewars start. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt at least once, and never worry about having to apologise if I come across as short or tetchy. Let's face it, I am short and tetchy at times. Good to see you back. Nice name. be kinder than necessary you never know what trials people are facing
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11/14/2008 6:33 am |
Not to change the subject, but she's actually onto something here! You as a therapist has fabulous possibilities. I am shocked it's never been brought up before (or maybe it has I drift in and out, too). But yeah, eMMa as matchmaker and GB to pick up the pieces. I'm lovin' it! Cheers!
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11/14/2008 6:30 pm |
Did someone call me? I think I should've gone as Cupid for Halloween, but ever since everyone else has discovered I do have them breasty things, I nixed the idea. Seriously though--I've never taken this place seriously enough to let narrow minded people get to me. There will always be those who would like to push your buttons and try and see how you'd respond. Why let them get to you at all? I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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11/17/2008 4:08 am |
I'm with MM. Personal remarks or opinions from people you've never met are not to be taken seriously. They're just pissing into the wind to see if they can hit somebody, anybody, in the eye. I normally reply civilly to them, as if I've completely missed their point. They tend to disappear quite quickly.
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11/17/2008 7:30 am |
I'm with MM. Personal remarks or opinions from people you've never met are not to be taken seriously. They're just pissing into the wind to see if they can hit somebody, anybody, in the eye. I normally reply civilly to them, as if I've completely missed their point. They tend to disappear quite quickly. It's only happened once, but I swung the executioner's ax swiftly and without hesitation. Cheers!
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11/17/2008 8:07 am |
Note to self: Don't buy daisy an axe for her birthday.
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