 | Blogs > MunchkinMatron2 > Not Necessarily The News > Gloria Steinem Might Bitchslap Me If She Ever Reads This |
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Gloria Steinem, that famous, fabulous, feminist icon, just might put me on her Hit List for daring to say what I'm about to. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for equality when it comes to men and women, especially at work. I'm so much for equality that it outraged me that it’s taken this long for the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act regarding equal pay for equal work to be signed into law in the U.S. this year. In a country as progressive as the U.S., it’s nothing short of shameful--considering that women have been part of the the American workforce for decades. That said, much as I believe in the Feminist Movement, I've always had my misgivings about it in ONE particular area more than anything. So let me take a deep breath, and sneak a peek if Gloria Steinem's lurking in the vicinity, before I plunge in. Here goes -- I believe feminism screwed men and women up, relationship-wise. There, I’ve said it and – wait, is that Gloria behind the potted plant? No? You sure? The roles that we used to have in relationships have been turned upside down and inside out by feminism, causing people to scurry around, editing and rewriting the rules, and glomming onto the book du jour, such as He’s Just Not That Into You, The Rules, and Why Men Love Bitches just to make sense of the whole mess. In short, feminism redefined all of us, but biology has yet to catch up. Men don't understand what women want anymore. Even us women don't understand what we want anymore. Should he be a gentleman, or will she call him a chauvinist? Should he offer to split the check so as not to insult her, or will that make him cheap? And why do some women think bitchiness for its own sake and being exactly like a man equals strength? Hmm, that coffee barista with the long straight hair and large glasses looks strikingly like Glori– naah. I'm not advocating a return to the olden days when women were cosseted and treated like fragile china, oh no. But forgive me if I have this sneaking suspicion we're spiralling downward. As a very astute friend of mine said, “Women have become bolder, louder, stronger, more aggressive, and men have staged a retreat.” And when that retreat happened, everything went haywire. Sometimes the problem with the modern woman is that she doesn't want to sit back anymore. She wants to do EVERYTHING, NOW. We women sometimes fail to realize that men move at an entirely different pace from us, and when they're not moving fast enough to our satisfaction, we just get right down to it and take over. And because so many of us have done this, even those who would have men revert to taking the lead find that because of the sheer number of aggressive women available to them, most men have stopped doing what we expect them to do. Feminism can't overrule what's been hardwired into most any guy's system -- that Mother Nature programmed them to be the pursuers. But when women appropriated that role for themselves in the name of equality, the guys were left wondering what else was left for them to do, so they did the next most logical thing. They stopped working to win us over. So here we are now, at an impasse, thinking -- what the hell happened? Kathleen Parker, author of Save The Males--wherein she argues that feminism has neutered men and deprived them of their noble, protective role in society, puts it succinctly: The biggest problem for both sexes – beyond the epidemic of sexually transmitted disease – is that casual sex is essentially an adversarial enterprise that pits men and women against each other. Some young women, now fully as sexually aggressive as men, have taken “liberation” to another level by acting as badly as the worst guy. Carol Platt Liebau, the author of Prude, another book on the havoc that pervasive sex has on young people, says that when girls begin behaving more coarsely so, too, do boys. “And now, because so many young girls have been told that it’s ‘empowering’ to pursue boys aggressively, there’s no longer any need for boys to ‘woo’ girls – or even to commit to a date,” she told me. “The girls are available [in every sense of the word] and the boys know it.”Men, meanwhile, have feelings. Although they’re uncomfortable sorting through them – and generally won’t if no one insists – I’ve listened to enough of them to know that our hypersexualised world has left many feeling limp and vacant. Our cultural assumption that men only want sex has been as damaging to them as to the women they target. Here is how a recent graduate summed it up to me: “Hooking up is great, but at some point you get tired of everything meaning nothing.” Ultimately, what our oversexualised, pornified culture reveals is that we think very little of our male family members. Undergirding the culture that feminism has helped to craft is a presumption that men are without honour and integrity. What we offer men is cheap, dirty, sleazy, manipulative sensation. What we expect from them is boorish, simian behaviour that ratifies the anti-male sentiment that runs through the culture. Surely our boys – and our girls – deserve better. In the end, let me just say that—oh my God, Gloria?? No! Stop it! OW!! MOMMY!! I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion. |
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 6/16/2009 9:43 am |
Well...some of us still have spines and testicles.  DDM
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6/16/2009 10:44 am |
But surely there's a fundamental flaw here? Men are "hardwired" to be pursuers and are feeling "neutered" because a cultural revolution has left them flailing in its wake, victims of deterministic genetics. Yet women, in the space of three or four decades, have slipped the shackles of culture and biology. Either our genes rule our behaviour or they don't. If they do, then women's genetically motivated behaviour has been laying dormant all this time, suppressed by patriarchy, and all feminism has done is show women for what they really are (not all that different to men, according to this post). If they don't, then men are not "hardwired" at all, biology does not have to "catch up", and all we're seeing is a transitional period in social equality. Either way, feminism is not to blame for any of it. The commodification of sex is behind "our oversexualised, pornified culture" not feminism and women's "new-found" sexual aggression. Men might well have been stripped of their "noble, protective role in society", but then, not all men have ever been noble or protective. Nobility is not a wholly male preserve, and women have often needed to be protected from men, not by them. Yes, there is a social and cultural revolution underway in some parts of the world. But the hypersexualisation of the world is due to the demands of capitalism and consumerism, not feminism, and the sooner men stop feeling limp and vacant, and are able to formulate a constructive response to social change instead of wanking in front of their computers and bemoaning the demise of courtly love, the better.
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6/16/2009 11:18 am |
Well...some of us still have spines and testicles. DDM Don't forget hula hoops. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 11:59 am |
But surely there's a fundamental flaw here? Men are "hardwired" to be pursuers and are feeling "neutered" because a cultural revolution has left them flailing in its wake, victims of deterministic genetics. Yet women, in the space of three or four decades, have slipped the shackles of culture and biology. Either our genes rule our behaviour or they don't. If they do, then women's genetically motivated behaviour has been laying dormant all this time, suppressed by patriarchy, and all feminism has done is show women for what they really are (not all that different to men, according to this post). If they don't, then men are not "hardwired" at all, biology does not have to "catch up", and all we're seeing is a transitional period in social equality. Either way, feminism is not to blame for any of it. The commodification of sex is behind "our oversexualised, pornified culture" not feminism and women's "new-found" sexual aggression. Men might well have been stripped of their "noble, protective role in society", but then, not all men have ever been noble or protective. Nobility is not a wholly male preserve, and women have often needed to be protected from men, not by them. Yes, there is a social and cultural revolution underway in some parts of the world. But the hypersexualisation of the world is due to the demands of capitalism and consumerism, not feminism, and the sooner men stop feeling limp and vacant, and are able to formulate a constructive response to social change instead of wanking in front of their computers and bemoaning the demise of courtly love, the better. In fact, I don't see how women have fully shaken off the shackles of culture and biology, as you put it, for, despite the fact that most women now hold full time jobs, more often than not we are still expected to be the full time caretakers of our children. In fact, as one author I read put it, in a way we women have shot ourselves in the foot, because not only do we now need to hold down a job as well, we still have to run a household to boot. So we just doubled our responsibilities. It's beginning to change, yes--but slowly. Compared to the speed with which women embraced our right to be equal to men, men are slower to pursue their equality with women. (And men can wank AND bemoan the demise of courtly love at the same time, too? Now THAT'S talent! )I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 3:05 pm |
The point I was making was that, in the advent of feminism, most women equated equality with being EXACTLY like men. So I don't see where I said that, as you implied, women are "not all that different to men, according to this post." It's precisely the notion that, to be equal to men, we must act like men, that got things messy relationship-wise. There are fundamental differences between the sexes, no matter how you slice it. In the push for equality, most women have totally missed the point--that we CAN be equal without sacrificing the innate differences that make women women and men, well, men. In fact, I don't see how women have fully shaken off the shackles of culture and biology, as you put it, for, despite the fact that most women now hold full time jobs, more often than not we are still expected to be the full time caretakers of our children. In fact, as one author I read put it, in a way we women have shot ourselves in the foot, because not only do we now need to hold down a job as well, we still have to run a household to boot. So we just doubled our responsibilities. It's beginning to change, yes--but slowly. Compared to the speed with which women embraced our right to be equal to men, men are slower to pursue their equality with women. (And men can wank AND bemoan the demise of courtly love at the same time, too? Now THAT'S talent! )Traditional concepts of gender roles still resist change. There's an article in the Guardian's Comment is Free section online about hostile attitudes towards women who don't want to have children.
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6/16/2009 3:08 pm |
Oh, and it mentions Cameron Diaz, so excuse me while I bemoan the demise of courtly love *cough*
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6/16/2009 3:18 pm |
And hula hoops. Don't forget hula hoops.  DDM
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 6/16/2009 7:06 pm |
Courtney? Did somebody say Courtney Love? (back in a jiff, still working) ~ B. Stay thirsty, my friends.
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6/16/2009 7:07 pm |
Gloria Steinem called for you while you were out. She sounded kind of pissed. it's Bob
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6/16/2009 7:48 pm |
You've said it far better here. And I think we broadly agree. Traditional concepts of gender roles still resist change. There's an article in the Guardian's Comment is Free section online about hostile attitudes towards women who don't want to have children.  *throws another paper ball at you while your back's turned* I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 7:49 pm |
Oh, and it mentions Cameron Diaz, so excuse me while I bemoan the demise of courtly love *cough* Ack. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 7:53 pm |
Courtney? Did somebody say Courtney Love? (back in a jiff, still working) ~ B. Or David Hasselhoff's nudie pic with puppies. I heard they broke the Uighur detainees with this. *gurklegaspwheezeheave* I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 7:56 pm |
Well...how do you think I keep it up (the hula hoop that is)? DDM  And you getting lei'd while at it, oh, God. I think I just blew a circuit. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 7:57 pm |
Gloria Steinem called for you while you were out. She sounded kind of pissed. *ponders if I can hide behind the potted bromeliad* I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 8:11 pm |
Hiya Munchkin  Hmmmmmm.... Fraid to say I agree with GowerBoy.... quote: Yes, there is a social and cultural revolution underway in some parts of the world. But the hypersexualisation of the world is due to the demands of capitalism and consumerism, not feminism, and the sooner men stop feeling limp and vacant, and are able to formulate a constructive response to social change instead of wanking in front of their computers and bemoaning the demise of courtly love, the better. DocZafJust a simple indian country-fried guy
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6/16/2009 8:19 pm |
Hiya Munchkin Hmmmmmm.... Fraid to say I agree with GowerBoy.... quote: Yes, there is a social and cultural revolution underway in some parts of the world. But the hypersexualisation of the world is due to the demands of capitalism and consumerism, not feminism, and the sooner men stop feeling limp and vacant, and are able to formulate a constructive response to social change instead of wanking in front of their computers and bemoaning the demise of courtly love, the better. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/16/2009 8:19 pm |
well, speaking from a different generational point of view I have to say that to me personally, feminism for my mother and myself wasn't about 'most women equated equality with being EXACTLY like men' wanting to be male. Neither one of us would want that and certainly we both enjoy our feminine aspects and preferred men to be men and women to be women. I can't speak for every woman but only myself. The meaning and goals of the feminist movement to me were about having control over our own choices in life. eg. when do we marry? do we marry at all? what type of education can we achieve? what type of profession can we choose? do we want children or no children? if we do get married and the marriage dissolves into divorce do we have the opportunity to participate in the disbursement of chattels and the right to raise our children on our own with or without support? do we have the right to demand to be paid for doing the same job as our male counterparts irregardless of what that job may be? do we have the right to vote and have a say in the judicial and government process of the countries we live in?....that was the beginning of the feminist movement. It wasn't about women being men. It was simply about the right to have control over our own freedom. With that said, I'm sure Ms. Steinmen would somewhat agree with many of the statements in regard to the movement moving in a direction that has split into different splintered factions and like all movements eventually do, has ended up with an image far from it's original intentions. But, within every movement, there is always a more militant group of action that often acts independently from the main core. I have many feminist views in regards to economic stability for myself and for my desire to remain single within the community that I live in and the right to chose to lead my life as I see fit without having to no longer 'depend upon' or be 'dependent upon' a male counterpart to provide me with the basic essential needs to survive. This does not mean that I don't wish to be feminine or be any less of the woman I am. I would much rather be a woman than a man. This also does not mean that I rule out having a male partner as part of my life either. For me personally, the only things I expect from a male is respect for my own abilities as a woman and acknowledgment of my achievements within our society. The rest is up to me to achieve and without those women who pioneered for those freedoms that I now enjoy and you enjoy we would not have them to the extent that we do. I don't really think you can blame the feminist movement for the way men and women conduct their relationships. I don't think men and women act any different today than they did even 100 years ago let's say. It's just more out in the open.
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6/16/2009 8:57 pm |
We are all, men and women, hardwired by evolution, and none of us have slipped those shackles. Feminism is/was a sociological reaction to years of sexism and inequality, and yes, it's gone too far. But men went too far first. There's a difference between the woman who stays home and cooks for her man because she loves him, and the woman who does the same thing because she was raised in a male-dominated world that denied her other opportunities. The first is evolution. The second is sexism. Back to Ana's point. As much as feminism has done for women in the past four decades, it has confused once-understood gender roles, skyrocketed divorce rates (therefore causing many men and women to grow up with dominant single mothers instead of strong father figures), empowered women to be more sexually aggressive while discouraging men from being sexually assertive, and has caused modern guys to be generally less confident, less decisive, less responsible and less attractive to women. But at least men are more polite now. Many men have reacted to feminism either with pig-headed hostility or by turning into 'sub-dudes' — new-age sensitivos who befriend empowered women by becoming more feminine themselves. Less James Bond and more "Jimmy would like to bond with you." Now women are wondering where all the "real men" went. And me? I have to go turn my Dan Fogelberg album over to Side Two. ~ B. Stay thirsty, my friends.
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6/17/2009 1:35 am |
Nice topic..but cant contribute at this moment.  *Busy working at home* Will come back later.   
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6/17/2009 3:18 am |
well, speaking from a different generational point of view I have to say that to me personally, feminism for my mother and myself wasn't about 'most women equated equality with being EXACTLY like men' wanting to be male. Neither one of us would want that and certainly we both enjoy our feminine aspects and preferred men to be men and women to be women. I can't speak for every woman but only myself. The meaning and goals of the feminist movement to me were about having control over our own choices in life. eg. when do we marry? do we marry at all? what type of education can we achieve? what type of profession can we choose? do we want children or no children? if we do get married and the marriage dissolves into divorce do we have the opportunity to participate in the disbursement of chattels and the right to raise our children on our own with or without support? do we have the right to demand to be paid for doing the same job as our male counterparts irregardless of what that job may be? do we have the right to vote and have a say in the judicial and government process of the countries we live in?....that was the beginning of the feminist movement. It wasn't about women being men. It was simply about the right to have control over our own freedom. With that said, I'm sure Ms. Steinmen would somewhat agree with many of the statements in regard to the movement moving in a direction that has split into different splintered factions and like all movements eventually do, has ended up with an image far from it's original intentions. But, within every movement, there is always a more militant group of action that often acts independently from the main core. I have many feminist views in regards to economic stability for myself and for my desire to remain single within the community that I live in and the right to chose to lead my life as I see fit without having to no longer 'depend upon' or be 'dependent upon' a male counterpart to provide me with the basic essential needs to survive. This does not mean that I don't wish to be feminine or be any less of the woman I am. I would much rather be a woman than a man. This also does not mean that I rule out having a male partner as part of my life either. For me personally, the only things I expect from a male is respect for my own abilities as a woman and acknowledgment of my achievements within our society. The rest is up to me to achieve and without those women who pioneered for those freedoms that I now enjoy and you enjoy we would not have them to the extent that we do. I don't really think you can blame the feminist movement for the way men and women conduct their relationships. I don't think men and women act any different today than they did even 100 years ago let's say. It's just more out in the open. I do agree with what you say about feminism having brought about more choices for us women, and for that I am grateful. I wouldn't want to be living in another era except this one, and I have only the utmost respect for the women who helped brought this about. But I do think there is a profound difference now between how women and men act today than they did a hundred years back. They may feel and want the same things, but how they go about getting it is another thing altogether. You just have to look at TV shows like Girls Gone Wild to show you just how far women go in the name of what they feel is equality. What most women do not realize is that in hypersexualizing themselves and thinking that this is equivalent to being equal with men, they merely turned back the clock by turning themselves into sexual objects. Both you and I believe that gender equality does not mean that we should emulate men in all their attitudes and proclivities. Unfortunately younger women now have that mindset, and therein lies the problem. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 3:34 am |
We are all, men and women, hardwired by evolution, and none of us have slipped those shackles. Feminism is/was a sociological reaction to years of sexism and inequality, and yes, it's gone too far. But men went too far first. There's a difference between the woman who stays home and cooks for her man because she loves him, and the woman who does the same thing because she was raised in a male-dominated world that denied her other opportunities. The first is evolution. The second is sexism. Back to Ana's point. As much as feminism has done for women in the past four decades, it has confused once-understood gender roles, skyrocketed divorce rates (therefore causing many men and women to grow up with dominant single mothers instead of strong father figures), empowered women to be more sexually aggressive while discouraging men from being sexually assertive, and has caused modern guys to be generally less confident, less decisive, less responsible and less attractive to women. But at least men are more polite now. Many men have reacted to feminism either with pig-headed hostility or by turning into 'sub-dudes' — new-age sensitivos who befriend empowered women by becoming more feminine themselves. Less James Bond and more "Jimmy would like to bond with you." Now women are wondering where all the "real men" went. And me? I have to go turn my Dan Fogelberg album over to Side Two. ~ B. You and Laurie (who, as I mentioned, is a relationship counselor) have pretty much the same observation about men and women--which isn't surprising, considering that you were writing for a relationship advice column before as well. So in your experience being asked for advice by quite a number of people (women in her case, men in yours) it's interesting that you both saw basically the same thing--that is, just how confused everyone's become. Interestingly, in connection with what you said about men becoming less responsible, Newsweek has an article entitled "Why Young Men Delay Adulthood to Stay in 'Guyland'," and in it, Tony Dukoupil explains why men seem to be delaying the usual milestones of marriage and starting a family, who shirk responsibility and see "grown-up life as such a loss"-- A bad attitude about marriage is not the only thing that's holding these guys back. A series of social and economic reversals are making it harder than ever to climb the ladder of adulthood. Since 1971, annual salaries for males 25 to 34 with full-time jobs have plummeted almost 20 percent, according to the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University. At the same time, women have crashed just about all the old male haunts, and are showing some signs of outpacing their husbands and boyfriends as breadwinners and heads of family, at least in urban centers. Last year, researchers at Queens College in New York determined that women between 21 and 30 in at least five major cities, including Dallas, Chicago and New York, have not only made up the wage gap since 1970—they now earn upwards of 15 percent more than their male counterparts. As a result, many men feel redundant. Today's guys are perhaps the first downwardly mobile—and endlessly adolescent—generation of men in U.S. history. They're also among the most distraught—men between the ages of 16 and 26 have the highest suicide rate for any group except men above 70—and socially isolated, despite their image as a band of backslapping buddies. According to the General Social Survey, a highly regarded decadeslong University of Chicago project to map changes in American culture, twentysomething guys are bowling alone when compared with the rest of society. They are less likely to read a newspaper, attend church, vote for president or believe that people are basically trustworthy, helpful and fair. Meanwhile, saddled with an average of $20,000 in student debt and reared with a sense of entitlement that stops them from taking any old job, the percentage of 26-year-olds living with their parents has nearly doubled since 1970, from 11 to 20 percent, according to economist Bob Schoeni's research with the Population Studies Center at the University of Michigan. It's a jungle out there now. Sigh. Now turn up Dan Fogelberg, will you? I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 3:38 am |
Nice topic..but cant contribute at this moment. *Busy working at home* Will come back later. (Starting trouble na naman me, heeheehee) I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 3:51 am |
While every one is trying to outwit each other... All I want to say is that in the end..LOVE PREVAILS..  Nothing else matters..
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6/17/2009 4:25 am |
While every one is trying to outwit each other... All I want to say is that in the end..LOVE PREVAILS.. Nothing else matters..Thanks for popping in, we2! I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 4:57 am |
You know, i don't see what all the fuss is about, why would women want to be equal to men and downgrade? Money in jobs?, what a misunderstanding, blokes don't get years of paid maternity leave. That must be factored in in any wage. Kids? come on your a lawyer, wheres the equality there? wrote loads more but, just deleted it, ill reply in a blog one day.
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6/17/2009 5:02 am |
Men are "hardwired" to be pursuers and are feeling "neutered" because a cultural revolution has left them flailing in its wake, victims of deterministic genetics. Yet women, in the space of three or four decades, have slipped the shackles of culture and biology. The above paragraph (quoting myself, such self-indulgence) was a summary of what I thought the post was saying, not what I believe to be true. Brian makes a good point about how some men have adapted, but even that is couched in pejorative terms. Carol Platt Liebau refers to a hypersexualised world, not hypersexualised women. Sexual assertiveness and/or aggression appears to be a shared trait between men and women. Whether this is culturally or genetically determined is open to debate. Feminism may have confused gender roles, but it is not solely responsible for "our oversexualised, pornified culture", or the high divorce rate. The commodification of desire (give me what I want, when I want it) and rampant consumerism (give me things I can use, but don't expect me to make anything) are social as well as economic phenomena. You can buy whatever you want if you have the means, and if you don't like something, you throw it away. Feminism is a moral/philosophical stance. A market-based economic system has no morals.
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6/17/2009 9:28 am |
I think its more important we know are places Men Shed Women everywhere else lolthanks for reading and as per Dave Allen "May your God go with you"
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6/17/2009 9:39 am |
Men are "hardwired" to be pursuers and are feeling "neutered" because a cultural revolution has left them flailing in its wake, victims of deterministic genetics. Yet women, in the space of three or four decades, have slipped the shackles of culture and biology. The above paragraph (quoting myself, such self-indulgence) was a summary of what I thought the post was saying, not what I believe to be true. Brian makes a good point about how some men have adapted, but even that is couched in pejorative terms. Carol Platt Liebau refers to a hypersexualised world, not hypersexualised women. Sexual assertiveness and/or aggression appears to be a shared trait between men and women. Whether this is culturally or genetically determined is open to debate. Feminism may have confused gender roles, but it is not solely responsible for "our oversexualised, pornified culture", or the high divorce rate. The commodification of desire (give me what I want, when I want it) and rampant consumerism (give me things I can use, but don't expect me to make anything) are social as well as economic phenomena. You can buy whatever you want if you have the means, and if you don't like something, you throw it away. Feminism is a moral/philosophical stance. A market-based economic system has no morals. I don't think Brian was couching them in pejorative terms so much as merely stating facts. As the Newsweek article I quoted in my reply to him pointed out, younger men seem more lost than ever before. Less sure of themselves, less responsible. I do find though, that when we are described as living in a hypersexualized world, more often than not it's because it's the women, rather than the men, who have been sexually objectified, and who have made themselves more available and open for sex (men have always ever wanted a conquest, and these days he finds he has more options than he knows what to do with). Perhaps this is why I equate hypersexualization of the world we move in as rooted in women not just embracing their sexuality, but flaunting it in the name of equality, to show that they can just be as good (or bad) as the men. Consider the male and female fashion--male fashion has always been constant, with few variations--shirt, breeches/pants, now shorts. Female fashion, on the other hand, has just gotten racier and more overtly sexual as time went by. I don't see how the tendency of most women these days to engage in casual sex as part of their notion of "liberation" is based on consumerism or capitalism. Porn, yes. But the regular girl getting it on in a one night stand isn't motivated by market forces. Moreover, while feminism is not the sole reason for divorce, it cannot be denied that, based on varying statistics, women initiate divorce proceedings twice as much as men do. And in that sense Brian is right--feminism has led to divorce skyrocketing (but again, I did not see him say it was the sole reason for it) I'm not saying that it's a bad thing--but I do believe that feminism has empowered women to have the courage to walk away from a bad marriage, which is a very very good thing, indeed, and that is why the divorce rate has gone up, simply because it is now an option open to women which wasn't the case in the past. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 9:41 am |
You know, i don't see what all the fuss is about, why would women want to be equal to men and downgrade? Money in jobs?, what a misunderstanding, blokes don't get years of paid maternity leave. That must be factored in in any wage. Kids? come on your a lawyer, wheres the equality there? wrote loads more but, just deleted it, ill reply in a blog one day. Moreover, most women find that after giving birth, as I've said, they not only go back to a full time job, but are considered the primary caretakers of children as well. Factor in the costs of getting a nanny/babysitter or spending on daycare should a woman shirk this responsibility. As there have been men who have been denied access to their children (and I understand and share your pain), there have been many more women abandoned by their spouses/partners along with their children to fend for themselves without any form of support whatsoever. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 9:47 am |
I think its more important we know are places Men Shed Women everywhere else lol*grabs the vacuum cleaner* I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/17/2009 5:58 pm |
 Yep I think the mom (you) is trying to make a better world for her boys   and for that i applaud you 2nd time today i heard a woman say something that made me take notice  the 1st was in a class I attended today for " mangers coaching employees " and this young lady who is in the fire dept. sitting next to me said to her friend .. nope I will not go out with him because i am looking for a husband .. not a daddy  .. I thought " you go girl " And you said " Undergirding the culture that feminism has helped to craft is a presumption that men are without honour and integrity. What we offer men is cheap, dirty, sleazy, manipulative sensation. What we expect from them is boorish, simian behaviour that ratifies the anti-male sentiment that runs through the culture. " lots and lots of Kudos for your insights. As a single white male .. I work for a municipal government that has a policy call MWB .. means that when awarding contracts or buying stuff .. minorities or women owned business get 1st shot at it even if their service or goods ... cost more .. quality is not as good.. or do not have good references ... humm let me see who is this discriminating against Yikes white males like me  and they have adopted the same mentality for hiring people  which has caused a great reduction in skill and intelligence for the whole company. Not to mention that because everyone knows how to cheat the system .. and that my company will pay more to MWB business than is the competitive price .. it is now $ 190 million dollars in debtAs to the dating world .. yep you hit the nail on the head again .. way to many women think they are " all that " and if they cant bark orders and expect the man to grovel like a wimp and spin-less coward .. then they go "queen bitch " ... hehehe ... makes me sick  to see a good man reduced to this  .. and this type will soon see my back side as I get away before i tell them ... who died and made you queen for the day But I do not mind a woman starting the conversation as i am a little shy when i first meet people .. we used to have Saddie Hawkins day here in the USA when I was in high school - where for a day the girls would ask the guys out .. and nobody would think less of the girls .. i looked forward to it every year .. and discovered some fine young ladies had a secret crush on me .. hehehe  Life is complicated, and relationships and love even more so
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6/17/2009 6:37 pm |
"Traditional concepts of gender roles still resist change..." Is biological stability resisting these new concepts? Peace .. elaine67
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6/17/2009 8:14 pm |
What do you wear when you work at home, Sherr? (Starting trouble na naman me, heeheehee) Sometimes I dont have the shorts, so when a neighbor knocks at the door and I forgot that I'm just wearing my undies,they get shocked upon seeing me with my house shirt and panty only.
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6/17/2009 8:53 pm |
*Raises right fist while passing by* "Right on, Mama!" --- (Wait a minute. Whose side am I on? ) --- (Leaves five pounds of shortbread cookies in case I'm wrong)  --- 
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6/18/2009 1:18 am |
Yep I think the mom (you) is trying to make a better world for her boys and for that i applaud you 2nd time today i heard a woman say something that made me take notice the 1st was in a class I attended today for " mangers coaching employees " and this young lady who is in the fire dept. sitting next to me said to her friend .. nope I will not go out with him because i am looking for a husband .. not a daddy /:> .. I thought " you go girl " And you said " Undergirding the culture that feminism has helped to craft is a presumption that men are without honour and integrity. What we offer men is cheap, dirty, sleazy, manipulative sensation. What we expect from them is boorish, simian behaviour that ratifies the anti-male sentiment that runs through the culture. " lots and lots of Kudos for your insights. As a single white male .. I work for a municipal government that has a policy call MWB .. means that when awarding contracts or buying stuff .. minorities or women owned business get 1st shot at it even if their service or goods ... cost more .. quality is not as good.. or do not have good references ... humm let me see who is this discriminating against Yikes white males like me and they have adopted the same mentality for hiring people which has caused a great reduction in skill and intelligence for the whole company. Not to mention that because everyone knows how to cheat the system .. and that my company will pay more to MWB business than is the competitive price .. it is now $ 190 million dollars in debtAs to the dating world .. yep you hit the nail on the head again .. way to many women think they are " all that " and if they cant bark orders and expect the man to grovel like a wimp and spin-less coward .. then they go "queen bitch " ... hehehe ... makes me sick to see a good man reduced to this .. and this type will soon see my back side as I get away before i tell them ... who died and made you queen for the day But I do not mind a woman starting the conversation as i am a little shy when i first meet people .. we used to have Saddie Hawkins day here in the USA when I was in high school - where for a day the girls would ask the guys out .. and nobody would think less of the girls .. i looked forward to it every year .. and discovered some fine young ladies had a secret crush on me .. hehehe Thanks for your insight, Tex. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 1:25 am |
"Traditional concepts of gender roles still resist change..." Is biological stability resisting these new concepts? But re your question, that's still open to debate--what do you say, though? I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 1:27 am |
My tattered shirt and my loose shorts. Sometimes I dont have the shorts, so when a neighbor knocks at the door and I forgot that I'm just wearing my undies,they get shocked upon seeing me with my house shirt and panty only. Me, I'm guilty of being in my jammies all day if I'm not going out anywhere. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 1:29 am |
*Raises right fist while passing by* "Right on, Mama!" --- (Wait a minute. Whose side am I on? ) --- (Leaves five pounds of shortbread cookies in case I'm wrong) --- Huggies! I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 2:03 am |
I have not read much about feminism before. One thing I appreciate about feminist discourse, as well as other modern theories such as deconstructionism, postcolonialism, etc,lies in that they help to shift people's attention to the groups of people whose rights and social status used to be so marginalised by the mainstream of their society, that they help to raise these people's awareness of their unique identity and that they encourage them to know that an equal and balanced treatment by the society is possible. But I don't think feminism has exerted very strong influence to the relationship aspect in my country, at least not in the sense of the feminism in my understanding. There are dominant wives and less masculine husbands, but many of those couples seem to reach certain reconciliation on such mode of running of their family. I don't like either kind of power overtaking in a family, but to my surprise, many of those families just survive well. I think perhaps personalities, instincts, chemicals, self-control, sense of moralities and ethics still play the essential role in the guidance of a relationship. Feminism here in many times just has reduced to a form or a banner, for as you put it, it only makes woman becomes a man, or a man becomes a woman. We often say that relationship is like the feeling of wearing a pair of shoes, no matter how beautiful one's feet might look or how pretty the shoes might seem, only the feet knows if the shoes fit them or not. I think I am way off the point again. 
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6/18/2009 2:36 am |
What's the fuss? Let's just say that, more often than not, especially in Third World countries, women don't enjoy the same rights as men do. They are paid less even though they do more work, and generally don't enjoy the same economic independence as men do. Moreover, most women find that after giving birth, as I've said, they not only go back to a full time job, but are considered the primary caretakers of children as well. Factor in the costs of getting a nanny/babysitter or spending on daycare should a woman shirk this responsibility. As there have been men who have been denied access to their children (and I understand and share your pain), there have been many more women abandoned by their spouses/partners along with their children to fend for themselves without any form of support whatsoever. From what i know about it, its the bloke that hands the money to the bird, perhaps keeping a couple of quid for a pint! As for women being primary caretakers for kids, let me be totally sexist here and say is that not their role in life? what they were designed to do.If this is not the case why do the courts rule in 99%of the time to give the mother custody. Having said that, i would have loved to taken the women's role of looking after the kids, easy day, lots of fun, none of that working 12 hour days to pay the bills and trying to make a better life for the family. And it seems these days for what, 2 out of 3 marriages end in divorce and it ain't the bird that has to move out of the house!! Wheres the blokes rights! So I'm talking in the west here, a woman being abandoned by the father left to fend for herself! feck its just not possible the authority's hound you for the money and I'm talking big time, even prison is an option. Many of my mates, and even me at one point were living in a nice house, nice car and all the rest, then they had to live in a grotty bed sit and have the maintenance taken straight out of their earnings. One of my mates even had to keep paying the mortgage while his wife's lover lived with her rent free. let me say as well, your comments regarding access to kids is totally wrong. Any father has his right of access taken away from his own kids in all divorce cases, yes he can see them weekends, but what about the cold november tuesday when he misses them like mad and they are with the step dad? So don't tell me women don't enjoy the same rights as men, they wouldn't want to! As a footnote this has cost me personaly in excess of 300,000 pounds and more important the right at any time i or they choose to share my life with my children.
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6/18/2009 3:49 am |
you know, i cant say for third world countries, but this rights thing, whats it all about? the right to vote? from where i sit women have more rights than men. Financial Independence, balderdash! From what i know about it, its the bloke that hands the money to the bird, perhaps keeping a couple of quid for a pint! As for women being primary caretakers for kids, let me be totally sexist here and say is that not their role in life? what they were designed to do.If this is not the case why do the courts rule in 99%of the time to give the mother custody. Having said that, i would have loved to taken the women's role of looking after the kids, easy day, lots of fun, none of that working 12 hour days to pay the bills and trying to make a better life for the family. And it seems these days for what, 2 out of 3 marriages end in divorce and it ain't the bird that has to move out of the house!! Wheres the blokes rights! So I'm talking in the west here, a woman being abandoned by the father left to fend for herself! feck its just not possible the authority's hound you for the money and I'm talking big time, even prison is an option. Many of my mates, and even me at one point were living in a nice house, nice car and all the rest, then they had to live in a grotty bed sit and have the maintenance taken straight out of their earnings. One of my mates even had to keep paying the mortgage while his wife's lover lived with her rent free. let me say as well, your comments regarding access to kids is totally wrong. Any father has his right of access taken away from his own kids in all divorce cases, yes he can see them weekends, but what about the cold november tuesday when he misses them like mad and they are with the step dad? So don't tell me women don't enjoy the same rights as men, they wouldn't want to! As a footnote this has cost me personaly in excess of 300,000 pounds and more important the right at any time i or they choose to share my life with my children. A lot of women I know would love to do nothing more than be primary caretakers for their children. Unfortunately, with the present economic situation being as it is, and even prior to this, most women do not have the luxury of exercising that option. They have to work in order to augment the family income as well. However, the responsibilities for running the household and taking care of the children, despite the fact that a woman may bring in the same amount of money (or even more) than her spouse does not automatically mean that household responsibilities become shared equally. Where is the equality in that? There are different situations that show that women may have gained or have had significant progress in being empowered, but on the whole, you have to admit it's been, and still is, an uphill struggle for women. Like I said, consider the Ledbetter Equal Pay for Equal Work Act, only signed into law this year for the US. This means that, for the years prior to this, women have been underpaid for the same amount of work they do as the males. If this was not the prevailing situation in most parts of the world, the United Nations would not have adopted the CEDAW, or the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, which, up to the present, is still addressing issues of rampant discrimination against women worldwide. Perhaps, as you say, from where you sit, women have more rights than men. Would that even equal rights be true for everywhere else. And regarding my comments regarding access to kids as being totally wrong, I can only draw from my own experiences working with women and children who have been so abandoned, seeing it first hand. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 3:57 am |
I have not read much about feminism before. One thing I appreciate about feminist discourse, as well as other modern theories such as deconstructionism, postcolonialism, etc,lies in that they help to shift people's attention to the groups of people whose rights and social status used to be so marginalised by the mainstream of their society, that they help to raise these people's awareness of their unique identity and that they encourage them to know that an equal and balanced treatment by the society is possible. But I don't think feminism has exerted very strong influence to the relationship aspect in my country, at least not in the sense of the feminism in my understanding. There are dominant wives and less masculine husbands, but many of those couples seem to reach certain reconciliation on such mode of running of their family. I don't like either kind of power overtaking in a family, but to my surprise, many of those families just survive well. I think perhaps personalities, instincts, chemicals, self-control, sense of moralities and ethics still play the essential role in the guidance of a relationship. Feminism here in many times just has reduced to a form or a banner, for as you put it, it only makes woman becomes a man, or a man becomes a woman. We often say that relationship is like the feeling of wearing a pair of shoes, no matter how beautiful one's feet might look or how pretty the shoes might seem, only the feet knows if the shoes fit them or not. I think I am way off the point again. Not off the point at all, Agnes. You've put another perspective to the whole discussion. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 4:24 am |
Women were taken for granted for so many years and still are, so I'm not surprised where we are today. The problem with our world is that we still look at gender and race first and judge a person by that before even getting to know them and see the inner worth. Many women feel they have to be really sexy and aggressive to enhance their worth or they feel like nobodies. Men are expected to be cocky and aggressive as well, otherwise women will see them as total wusses. Magazines, the internet, and the media feed that stigma. Younger men and women are more likely to fall under that influence. Fortunately, as both sexes get older, they begin to realize who they are and what they really want from each other. Men and women who actually like each other for who they are and form a close bond with each other, are more likely to have healthier relationships of love and friendships than the those who just want someone as a trophy or just for sex. Love, respect, and kindness can go a long way in improving the situation we are in today. If you can't convince them, confuse them!
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6/18/2009 4:33 am |
I think that sometimes, in the quest for equality between the genders, particularly when it comes to relationships, both are guilty of forgetting the most important underpinning of all--that of mutual respect. And having mutual respect for each means give and take. Thanks for your insight, Tex. I think the main problem is too many people are just trying to fulfill their needs for today .. without any regard for what it will do to tomorrow Life is complicated, and relationships and love even more so
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6/18/2009 5:23 am |
It's a transitional period. Nobody's quite sure where it's going, but the majority of people don't want to go back to the status quo ante. But to be perfectly honest, after millennia of economic, physical, social and political domination of women by men, a few generations of men complaining about the fact they don't understand relationships (did they ever?) doesn't particularly concern me. Good debate, though.
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6/18/2009 8:18 am |
Women were taken for granted for so many years and still are, so I'm not surprised where we are today. The problem with our world is that we still look at gender and race first and judge a person by that before even getting to know them and see the inner worth. Many women feel they have to be really sexy and aggressive to enhance their worth or they feel like nobodies. Men are expected to be cocky and aggressive as well, otherwise women will see them as total wusses. Magazines, the internet, and the media feed that stigma. Younger men and women are more likely to fall under that influence. Fortunately, as both sexes get older, they begin to realize who they are and what they really want from each other. Men and women who actually like each other for who they are and form a close bond with each other, are more likely to have healthier relationships of love and friendships than the those who just want someone as a trophy or just for sex. Love, respect, and kindness can go a long way in improving the situation we are in today. I can't even add anything to this anymore. This is just perfect. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 8:24 am |
I totally agree ~ mutual respect ~ is the keystone to a solid relationship. Just as ~ professional courtesy ~ is the key to a pleasant work environment. I think the main problem is too many people are just trying to fulfill their needs for today .. without any regard for what it will do to tomorrow I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 8:27 am |
It's a transitional period. Nobody's quite sure where it's going, but the majority of people don't want to go back to the status quo ante. But to be perfectly honest, after millennia of economic, physical, social and political domination of women by men, a few generations of men complaining about the fact they don't understand relationships (did they ever?) doesn't particularly concern me. Good debate, though. Funny thing, we women say the same thing about relationships as well--if I could have a dollar for every female friend of mine who asked about why he never called back... (You still moaning, I mean, bemoaning over Cameron Diaz?) I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/18/2009 10:30 am |
We're the generation of instant gratification, Tex. And we're also the generation of the TMI--we twitter, we facebook, we blog, we just keep putting ourselves OUT there that I'm beginning to find myself suffering from information overload (I swear if another friend posts on my facebook the quiz results of what her aura is I am gonna scream). We self-promote so much we don't retain much mystery anymore. I don't really know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, though. Time will tell if we all get twittered out. right again munchkin momma A little mystery keeps the beginning relationship interesting and enticing. I think it is too late to stop the snowball that's rolling downhill straight into the dragons mouth  because now i am getting more and more girls who want me to go here or their to see them in underclothes or nude because there is a competition to see who can out do who and modesty is out the window. i do not twitter or face-book .. I like My-Space but it's there big time too... and often I am asked to go twitter or facebook to see or read their stuff ... well duhhh why did they not just say it in their 1st note ..hahaha  hey I still just like talking to people on the phone but this is definitely a dying art .. it's all texting and IM and comments (post)anymore   Heaven help me but i hate sending text on a numbered-pad cell phone .. it takes me forever but I just had to text out to friends and family that my last remaining blood-aunt died this morning .. Grrrr  because nobody talks on the phone anymore .. they don't even pick-up .. double grrrr Life is complicated, and relationships and love even more so
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6/18/2009 4:29 pm |
I think we've screwed ourselves on all different levels. Ok, sure, changes in attitude, perception, and behavior (vague, I know) can and do morph into societal trends, and may, arguably, even alter the development of our species. Evolution roughly equates with adaptation, right? Are we forcing biological change? Can the behavior of the gender righteous actually alter us physiologically? Certainly we have "forced" many issues involving gender rights, and look where we are. Unexpected results? I wonder if anyone predicted the mess you describe. I'm all over the place with this, but I do agree that men must be very confused and this makes me sad. I remember as a very young girl saying to my mom that I would never be a feminist. I wanted alimony and that was that! Here I am, though, single mom, head of household...barely escaped paying alimony myself. Not digging on that. And, plus, my boyfriend *rarely* opens the door for me (that may change now that he's read your post). Finally, and personally, I do not need to be liberated to sleep around. Peace .. elaine67
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6/18/2009 4:34 pm |
And, you know what else? I think it's equally confusing for a lot of women, too. I may not wear makeup (or stilettos ), but I'm pretty much a girl. Not really the dominant type. And, I'm silly, and soft, smart, but not one who needs to be in power. In other words - not someone very many people take seriously. Maybe I should wear a sock. Peace .. elaine67
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6/18/2009 4:36 pm |
Oh, yeah...one more thing... Where are all these "more" polite men Brian mentioned? Peace .. elaine67
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6/18/2009 7:11 pm |
(((ana))) too busy with the new project im telling you, we'll start na this july 8......miss you atty !!! hugssss farahdise 
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6/19/2009 12:21 am |
And, you know what else? I think it's equally confusing for a lot of women, too. I may not wear makeup (or stilettos ), but I'm pretty much a girl. Not really the dominant type. And, I'm silly, and soft, smart, but not one who needs to be in power. In other words - not someone very many people take seriously. Maybe I should wear a sock.  Life is complicated, and relationships and love even more so
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6/19/2009 1:19 am |
right again munchkin momma A little mystery keeps the beginning relationship interesting and enticing. I think it is too late to stop the snowball that's rolling downhill straight into the dragons mouth because now i am getting more and more girls who want me to go here or their to see them in underclothes or nude because there is a competition to see who can out do who and modesty is out the window. i do not twitter or face-book .. I like My-Space but it's there big time too... and often I am asked to go twitter or facebook to see or read their stuff ... well duhhh why did they not just say it in their 1st note ..hahaha hey I still just like talking to people on the phone but this is definitely a dying art .. it's all texting and IM and comments (post)anymore Heaven help me but i hate sending text on a numbered-pad cell phone .. it takes me forever but I just had to text out to friends and family that my last remaining blood-aunt died this morning .. Grrrr because nobody talks on the phone anymore .. they don't even pick-up .. double grrrr I used to be able to text while driving. I don't do it anymore. One bad habit rid of again for 2009. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 1:24 am |
I think we've screwed ourselves on all different levels. Ok, sure, changes in attitude, perception, and behavior (vague, I know) can and do morph into societal trends, and may, arguably, even alter the development of our species. Evolution roughly equates with adaptation, right? Are we forcing biological change? Can the behavior of the gender righteous actually alter us physiologically? Certainly we have "forced" many issues involving gender rights, and look where we are. Unexpected results? I wonder if anyone predicted the mess you describe. I'm all over the place with this, but I do agree that men must be very confused and this makes me sad. I remember as a very young girl saying to my mom that I would never be a feminist. I wanted alimony and that was that! Here I am, though, single mom, head of household...barely escaped paying alimony myself. Not digging on that. And, plus, my boyfriend *rarely* opens the door for me (that may change now that he's read your post). Finally, and personally, I do not need to be liberated to sleep around. It is a mess. Hopefully, as gow said, it's a transitional phase. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 1:28 am |
And, you know what else? I think it's equally confusing for a lot of women, too. I may not wear makeup (or stilettos ), but I'm pretty much a girl. Not really the dominant type. And, I'm silly, and soft, smart, but not one who needs to be in power. In other words - not someone very many people take seriously. Maybe I should wear a sock. I tried the sock thing. Didn't work. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 1:28 am |
Oh, yeah...one more thing... Where are all these "more" polite men Brian mentioned? Although, to be fair, Filipino men, on the whole, are quite polite. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 1:29 am |
(((ana))) too busy with the new project im telling you, we'll start na this july 8......miss you atty !!! hugssss Miss you too! Good luck with your new project! I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 1:30 am |
now see I like her... maybe if she lived with-in 50 miles of me.. we would hit it off.. IAMAPIG *oink* I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 5:16 am |
Oh, and deepest condolences on the death of your aunt, Tex.  Totally overlooked that earlier.I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/19/2009 8:52 am |
Haven't there always been adversarial undercurrents between the genders? All that seems to have changed is that the playing field is beginning to level out and Team Macho is crying foul. Other lazy metaphors forthcoming as and when they occur to me.
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6/20/2009 5:16 am |
Haven't there always been adversarial undercurrents between the genders? All that seems to have changed is that the playing field is beginning to level out and Team Macho is crying foul. Other lazy metaphors forthcoming as and when they occur to me. My mother always said that, too. There was a certain acceptance (resignation?) in the generations of yore that boys will be boys (or maybe it was only that way in my culture then), so it wasn't so much adversarial as a sense of understanding, since men and women willingly accepted the roles that society imposed on them. Nowadays, though, these adversarial undercurrents are more marked, considering that women now compete with men in different aspects--education, employment, custodial battles brought on by higher divorce rates, for example. The present ground rules have changed, and it's confused everyone--and far from Team Macho being the only one crying foul, women are at a loss as well over how to deal with the male retreat. Otherwise books like Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus and others of its ilk wouldn't be selling like the proverbial hotcakes. And speaking of adversarial, what's the big idea demoting me to Button Man in Mafia Wars, boyo? I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/20/2009 10:01 pm |
From my understanding, the oversexualization of girls has little to do with feminism. This is a different phenomenon--and one I am uncomfortable with. The question arises: who are they oversexualized for? For the most part, not other women--but for the male gaze. The pouty lips, the revealing clothing is designed for men. As I understand it, the oversexualized pornified culture has little to do with the feminism. As Gower pointed out, this is sex as a commodity--thank capitalism for this, where everything is for sale, not feminism. Secondly, seems to me that on some level, women are once again being held accountable for men's behaviour. Women have become assertive, and men turn either violent or into wimps. And then blame women for their behaviour. "She made me do it." Women have changed and grown, why can't men? I've seen a similar argument touted when minority men started getting into positions of power: equal opportunities shouldn't be given to minorities, etc. As soon as those in places of privilege are challenged, and, generally this has been white men, they have a number of predictable responses: blame those who want to advance; become violent and oppose change; down tools and refuse to play. The men who have retreated have done so because their once prized place of privilege has been taken away and they refuse to learn how to live like ordinary human beings. In Canada, every gain women have made, has actually benefited men. Men now get paternity leave. When a couple divorces, the woman doesn't automatically get the house, alimony and the children. But the best part of the feminist movement is now we see fathers spending time with their children--being actively involved. I see men entering professions such as early childhood education and nursing. I see young men playing football AND being in theatre AND taking advanced literature courses. At one time, young men restricted themselves to more traditional "boy" courses. The relationships in previous generations weren't publicly adversarial because women had NO power. Women "willingly" accepted the roles society imposed on them? No, they had no real choice--or power or control. They remained in abusive marriages. There was no real understanding--just dominance and submission. Women were property--in Canada they weren't even "persons." If women so "willingly accepted the roles society imposed on them" then why did they fight so hard to change those roles? Why did they fight for the right to vote? To be educated? To be recognized as persons? To be paid the same as men? Once again, it is easy to blame women, under the guise of "feminism" for the current ills we see. What are men's responsibilities in all of this? Why aren't men being held accountable for their behaviour? Wishing you happiness Misty
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6/21/2009 12:01 am |
From my understanding, the oversexualization of girls has little to do with feminism. This is a different phenomenon--and one I am uncomfortable with. The question arises: who are they oversexualized for? For the most part, not other women--but for the male gaze. The pouty lips, the revealing clothing is designed for men. As I understand it, the oversexualized pornified culture has little to do with the feminism. As Gower pointed out, this is sex as a commodity--thank capitalism for this, where everything is for sale, not feminism. Secondly, seems to me that on some level, women are once again being held accountable for men's behaviour. Women have become assertive, and men turn either violent or into wimps. And then blame women for their behaviour. "She made me do it." Women have changed and grown, why can't men? I've seen a similar argument touted when minority men started getting into positions of power: equal opportunities shouldn't be given to minorities, etc. As soon as those in places of privilege are challenged, and, generally this has been white men, they have a number of predictable responses: blame those who want to advance; become violent and oppose change; down tools and refuse to play. The men who have retreated have done so because their once prized place of privilege has been taken away and they refuse to learn how to live like ordinary human beings. In Canada, every gain women have made, has actually benefited men. Men now get paternity leave. When a couple divorces, the woman doesn't automatically get the house, alimony and the children. But the best part of the feminist movement is now we see fathers spending time with their children--being actively involved. I see men entering professions such as early childhood education and nursing. I see young men playing football AND being in theatre AND taking advanced literature courses. At one time, young men restricted themselves to more traditional "boy" courses. The relationships in previous generations weren't publicly adversarial because women had NO power. Women "willingly" accepted the roles society imposed on them? No, they had no real choice--or power or control. They remained in abusive marriages. There was no real understanding--just dominance and submission. Women were property--in Canada they weren't even "persons." If women so "willingly accepted the roles society imposed on them" then why did they fight so hard to change those roles? Why did they fight for the right to vote? To be educated? To be recognized as persons? To be paid the same as men? Once again, it is easy to blame women, under the guise of "feminism" for the current ills we see. What are men's responsibilities in all of this? Why aren't men being held accountable for their behaviour? Women nowadays are more sexually aggressive, and as a consequence, fewer men feel the need to make commitments to relationships anymore. Why bother when there are so many options? All they need to do is to move on to the next available woman. How do we hold them accountable for recklessly sampling what has been willingly made available to them? I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/22/2009 2:59 pm |
Hello Ana, sorry not a long reply from me at this moment, had a long one half way......and than computer strike.........so will do a next try tomorrow. Again a brilliant piece of blog thank you. Besides I was too upset by the easy an eye for an eye answers of Gowerboy.......sorry nice guy will respond to you tomorrow.  I assume you are as me without kids. Good, because some things do make a change. Besides Ana, this is not only about behaviour but also about outcomes isn´t it ....... like Kids??? And there are huge differences. Come on you´re a lawyer and you know as well as I do that kids are INCOME. MONEY. BIG LOADS of MONEY if you do it right.At least here in Germany. We had to have Laws changed here in Germany to set a few women RIGHT (talks is about 400.000 cuckoo kids)here in Germany and fight for the real rights of children for their real dads and the once mummie lets pay for being their financialy better dad. Was what you referred to Gower when you said ........All that seems to have changed is that the playing field is beginning to level out and Team Macho is crying foul??? Write you both tomorrow.
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6/22/2009 5:26 pm |
Hello Ana, sorry not a long reply from me at this moment, had a long one half way......and than computer strike.........so will do a next try tomorrow. Again a brilliant piece of blog thank you. Besides I was too upset by the easy an eye for an eye answers of Gowerboy.......sorry nice guy will respond to you tomorrow. I assume you are as me without kids. Good, because some things do make a change. Besides Ana, this is not only about behaviour but also about outcomes isn´t it ....... like Kids??? And there are huge differences. Come on you´re a lawyer and you know as well as I do that kids are INCOME. MONEY. BIG LOADS of MONEY if you do it right.At least here in Germany. We had to have Laws changed here in Germany to set a few women RIGHT (talks is about 400.000 cuckoo kids)here in Germany and fight for the real rights of children for their real dads and the once mummie lets pay for being their financialy better dad. Was what you referred to Gower when you said ........All that seems to have changed is that the playing field is beginning to level out and Team Macho is crying foul??? Write you both tomorrow. And noooo, basically what I refer to here is really more about how messed up RELATIONSHIPS are these days, because guys are at a loss about how to handle women who feel that to be equal to men, they have to be exactly LIKE men--that is, just as sexually aggressive. Nothing about equal rights in any other aspect or about children, just with regard to relationships, how dating is so different these days. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/23/2009 7:59 am |
I wrote a whole point of view, re read it, and decided it was gibberish. I will leave the first line though. Nature versus Nurture. and. Every generation, blames the one before. Sensy between the stars, beyond the planet mars, there Sens will be
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6/23/2009 8:12 am |
I remember my grandmother constantly saying, "Men are always going to be that way." My mother always said that, too. There was a certain acceptance (resignation?) in the generations of yore that boys will be boys (or maybe it was only that way in my culture then), so it wasn't so much adversarial as a sense of understanding, since men and women willingly accepted the roles that society imposed on them. Nowadays, though, these adversarial undercurrents are more marked, considering that women now compete with men in different aspects--education, employment, custodial battles brought on by higher divorce rates, for example. The present ground rules have changed, and it's confused everyone--and far from Team Macho being the only one crying foul, women are at a loss as well over how to deal with the male retreat. Otherwise books like Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus and others of its ilk wouldn't be selling like the proverbial hotcakes. And speaking of adversarial, what's the big idea demoting me to Button Man in Mafia Wars, boyo? I am not looking forward to those days, because the statement in and of itself is accepting condemnable behcaviour. MAfia Wards, gods, hubby is nuts over that game..lol. between the stars, beyond the planet mars, there Sens will be
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6/23/2009 8:25 am |
and thirdly..lol I am the full time bread winner in my family, and surprisingly enough, am not a single mother left to her woes by her erst while mate running off to find younger and better. It made more sense as the one with the career for me to be the one at work full time while my husband does an absolutely wonderful job of raising the children, and keeping the house. I can't remember who in here yammered about the laziness of being the homemaker of the relationship and I recognize and believe that it is not true. In the beginning hubby would sometimes get depressed about how much money he would be bringing in, and I tell him that the money we are saving in Daycare, Maid, and Nanny fees is the money that he is bringing in. Why bring in more money,just to give it away to someone else? I am probably the epitome of a feminist, and yet when I am queried, "are you a feminist" I would say no. go figure. The feminist role as I am aware of it is one of woman who are crying "I want to do whatever I want and DAMN the consequences!!" To me, this isn't a good place to be, whether you be male, female, nay, HUMAN. This feeling of "entitlement" that seems to be prevalent in society today is resulting in a lot of the confusing of issues. I blame "entitlement" and the lack of consequences for actions undertaken for the mixed up world we live in today. Sensy between the stars, beyond the planet mars, there Sens will be
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6/23/2009 5:52 pm |
LOL, sens--lookit you go! Love your insights. I think part of why we're also at the confusion we're in is that women want to prove that what men can do, we can too, sex-wise. But for majority of us women we need to be emotionally involved before we can have sex, or when we do have sex, we equate it with love and get emotionally entangled more often than not. Sex, for men, is just...sex. I don't know if you can call me dyed-in-the-wool feminist as well, because even though I'm all for equality, I actually LIKE being a (mostly) stay-at-home wife and mom. And people keep saying to me, "All that fine law education for nothing." But the way I see it, feminism empowered us women by giving us choices. It's just that I feel that women are making the wrong choice trying to be like the men when it comes to relationship.s I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/23/2009 6:00 pm |
Some day, it will be "girls will be girls" I am not looking forward to those days, because the statement in and of itself is accepting condemnable behcaviour. MAfia Wards, gods, hubby is nuts over that game..lol. I don't know if this is progress. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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6/23/2009 7:34 pm |
"In the end, it's all about ego, and arrogance. In short, in the world today, it's all about "me, me, me" *quote from Hubby after discussing this blog* I am married to a rare man. One of a dying breed I think. He's not a chauvinist, but believes that woman are to be treated with respect and care. He believes in the dying creedo of "chivalry" and yet, he is a stay at home dad. He is the fiercest man I know, and he would die without question to protect my children and me. I am SO glad our children can see this man that raises them. I am glad that our children know the love of both their parents. I believe that with this strong family foundation my daughter will not be having sex at 13. Nor will she be devaluing the meaning of sex between two people. I also believe our son will not be emasculated by a strong female presence, and that he will be lead by example, and be ready to be an equal in his relationships, not the leader, and certainly not the follower. Social equality has already reached this household I think. Sensy between the stars, beyond the planet mars, there Sens will be
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6/24/2009 5:34 pm |
"In the end, it's all about ego, and arrogance. In short, in the world today, it's all about "me, me, me" *quote from Hubby after discussing this blog* I am married to a rare man. One of a dying breed I think. He's not a chauvinist, but believes that woman are to be treated with respect and care. He believes in the dying creedo of "chivalry" and yet, he is a stay at home dad. He is the fiercest man I know, and he would die without question to protect my children and me. I am SO glad our children can see this man that raises them. I am glad that our children know the love of both their parents. I believe that with this strong family foundation my daughter will not be having sex at 13. Nor will she be devaluing the meaning of sex between two people. I also believe our son will not be emasculated by a strong female presence, and that he will be lead by example, and be ready to be an equal in his relationships, not the leader, and certainly not the follower. Social equality has already reached this household I think. Sensy I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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7/11/2009 9:08 pm |
well,i think lot s of things in the universe have no much rules among them,but they runs well always
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7/15/2009 7:48 pm |
well,i think lot s of things in the universe have no much rules among them,but they runs well always I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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7/17/2009 12:24 pm |
Feminism has it's trade offs. You can be a cool macho female, an independent intelligent beautiful thing but men will shy away because you came too strong , too perfect , too intimidating...so what does men do?... they migrate to places where women are submissive, weaker and close to vacuous, they chose to become single, gay, metrosexuals and "women" themselves so that they can rally beside you for equal gender rights. And what's left for the feminists? the ugly, the bad and the bitter.
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7/17/2009 11:41 pm |
Feminism has it's trade offs. You can be a cool macho female, an independent intelligent beautiful thing but men will shy away because you came too strong , too perfect , too intimidating...so what does men do?... they migrate to places where women are submissive, weaker and close to vacuous, they chose to become single, gay, metrosexuals and "women" themselves so that they can rally beside you for equal gender rights. And what's left for the feminists? the ugly, the bad and the bitter. Hopefully the imbalance eventually corrects itself and men can finally appreciate that having a strong woman who knows her mind is eminently better than being with the weak and the vacuous. And I'd rather be alone than be with a man who shores up his own ego by wanting someone like that in the first place. That said, I see the same thing you see too--consider female lawyers and doctors. Some of my female law school classmates are still single--bemoaning their single status--while most of my male law school classmates on the other hand, went off and married trophy wives 10 years younger (mostly flight attendants). I hear of the same phenomenon in the medical field. Thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment. Nice to meet you, alice. I'm dyslexic. I scream Ho Dog instead of Oh God in the throes of passion.
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